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Reverse Kegels to relax stretch BC Muscle

Originally Posted by Biggy_wang
Thanks Guy’s for all your wonderful input,
I do thing think my problem is psychological and physical,

Psychological -I have had on/off premature ejaculation before I used SSRI’s(4 years ago).
When I started using them , pre ejaculation was no more!It completely solved that.
Now back in April,2006 I stopped my SSRI use and my Pre ejaculation came back 10 fold easily.
( I have tried to stop numerous times before and the same thing happened=Bad case of premature ejaculation).
So that tells me it is something psychological .
I just started a Different SSRI with supposedly less SE, We will se if that help with premature ejaculation.

Physical-My penis is really sensitive!I get the in-voluntary urge to blow all the time now.

Kaan” you are a perfect candidate for this question:

1.)Before, when suffered for Premature ejaculation, did you get the in-voluntary URGE to blow frequently?
Like every 1-2 min, especially if intensity was greater(fucking faster and harder)?
2.)Now that you have cured you premature ejaculation through kegels, Do you still get the frequent in-voluntary URGES to blow the same you have always, but now you can control them?
3.)Or now do you notice you do not get those * I have to blow a load every few minutes in-voluntary URGES*anymore ?

I am sure you see where I am going with this, I am trying to see what the noticeable differences are now that you are cured of PE.
In comparison from you being cured by kegels and me by SSRI’s, I will tell you what I felt.

*****When being cured from premature ejaculation on SSRI’s, Here is what happened-I simply did not get those in-voluntary Urges to have to blow
A load, they were completely voluntary, I blew when I wanted, Never had those in-voluntary, Oh shit my penis wants to blow, but I don’t.

So you see my Big question here is, From kegels; did it cut down on those in-voluntary, frequent urges to blow, Or did that stay the same , and you simply learned to manage them better?

*****-I sure your cure was like this.

Let’s answer the questions first:
1-) I don’t remember a particular URGE about it, but just like you say, it was especially hard (practically impossible) not to blow when doing it fast and hard (which is he way I want)
2-) No, I feel comfortable. I don’t feel that urge. On the top of that, I don’t mind “not-blowing” either. I finish sex without ejaculation most of the time
3-) Yes, I’m much calmer. Not just for sex, but in general too.

And here’s the answer to your final question:

I’ve been through a change-phase recently . Within The last year or so, there has been changes in my life: exercises, PE, better diet, Taoist stuff, kegels, etc..
I’ll give the details of what I’ve done:
- Abstaining from ejaculations: this is like closing a big energy hole. very beneficial. (No more than once a week or ten days must be my average these days)
- Exercises: running, bb, etc. 3-4 times a week, 1-2 hours each session.
- good diet. We have a member here :”zaneblue”, who invented her own diet. She’s about to publish it as a book. I benefited from that diet A LOT.
- This what I’ve done( and this’s the basis of zaneblue’s diet) : I took fishoil everyday for months: about 3gr/day. It’s a great stuff, because it naturally supplies the hormones (seratonin, etc.) that are diminished inside the body- especially during stressful times/depressions. It’s definitely been very helpful to me. The key indrigient here is: omega-3.
I used about 3 gr/day. And I used supplements like ZMA, multivitamins, arginine, to support both the exercises and PE. It’s all-natural and not harming, great for health, and I could tell the difference easily: my mood became better after I begun using it. I’m not using it these days, but I must have stocked enaugh of that good stuff within the body for sure :)
- what’s written above gives a good physical support I think (without having to use medicine, I don’t like that stuff)

- I’ve done a lot of PE.
- I did keges and edging. Edging trains the body and mind to fight that “URGE” you mention. It’s one of the greatest exercises.
- I started with 5-10 minutes. And improved the time to 45 minutes- 1 hour.
-It waS NOT easy to do when I first started. But it’s “the way” to fight with the urge of ejaculating. That’s mostly a bad habit I think: both physical and emotional. But I adapted it with time.

What I wAnt to say finally is: I don’t think only kegels will be enaugh to cut that urge. But a combinaion of physical support (exercises, omega-3, supplements), kegels+ edging, and and a lot of patience will give the results.


Start: 6.9 BPEL x 4.9 (17,5 x 12,5 cm)

Now: 7.7 BPEL x 5.7 (19,5 x 14,5 cm)

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Contracting this muscle makes the glans (head) enlarge. That makes it more vulnerable to friction and stimulation. More friction and stimulation could make you ejaculate sooner than you want to. So you can eliminate some of the problem by not doing kegels during sex.

I think kegels may contribute to premature ejaculation in some cases. Reason is that as you strengthen the ‘kegel muscles’ it increases the pressure in the glands. If you before had low pressure in the glans, then started kegeling, it would strenghten the muscles that keep the glans fully engorged. This imho may lead to premature ejaculation. Have noticed for myself how much more engorged my glans are after starting kegeling. This has lead to increased pleasure during sex and masturbating, not to mention increased my girth by about 3/16”, by keeping the corpus spongiosum and glans fully engorged.

Originally Posted by headshrinker
My problem is that kegals have trained my BC muscle to involuntarily contract and I can’t control it.

I didnt have this problem before I started kegals.

I did do rather alot though. If I’d of started off with a little and gradually increased as mentioned above would this of happened?

Could I still do this now to cure myself?

Thx

This has happened to a bunch of people, myself included. You get these involuntary “mini” kegels that aren’t quite as long as a strong kegel that you do manually, but they are quick and forceful you can’t stop them and gradually they build up, and you come a lot quicker. The first time I started getting the involuntary kegels was over a year ago, and they still really aren’t gone, but I figured a way that helps to get rid of them, or at least help.

The problem is that by doing kegels “some people” train their BC muscles to contract involuntarily, the way you fix it is to untrain your BC muscle, and you can do this with reverse kegels done in a certain way. Reverse kegels keep you from performing a kegel, but your timing has to be right to stop them completely.

Its easy to practice this while masturbating, as I have noticed that I usually get the involuntary kegels when pressure or stimulation is applied to my dick. Since the involuntary BC contractions are short and forced, thats what your reverse kegels should be like in order to try to counter the kegels. Try it out, you will see that it can be a little hard getting used to it, but you should see some immediate results with less BC contractions.

The only problem is that everytime I cure myself, it comes back when I kegel again (even when I don’t do them during sex or masturbation). Usually I end up doing kegels when I get head because I really have to try pretty hard to come in a reasonable amount of time lest I hurt the girls feelings making her feel inadequate.

I’ve noticed that doing reverse kegels during sex can help stop the contractions, but if I hold my reverse kegel for more than a couple seconds (forcing relaxation of my pelvic muscles), I will also come a bit faster. Quick and strong reverse kegels have always worked best for me, but it gets tedious doing a bunch of reverse kegels everytime I get a blowjob, because I come really fast (sometimes under 30 seconds) when I get those contractions, and those contractions make you feel like you are about to come any instant. You can feel them even before penetration, and when you feel them, you know that you are going to bust quickly.

I usually get the involuntary kegels the first time I have sex in a day, or if I wait several hours to to it again, but even then, its not as bad as the first time. If I have sex quickly after the first time, I last as long as I want, and don’t feel any contractions whatsoever, but its still no fun coming really fast the first time.

Sorry about writing so much, its been my longest post by far, but I have one more question:

The involuntary contractions that I get pump blood into my dick, like regular kegels making me harder (but also making me come faster). Doing reverse kegels stops the contractions, does that mean that reverse kegels might keep me from staying as hard during sex?

I would appreciate any comments, thanks.

Disclaimer: It’s not an accurate term, but I’m going to use ‘kegel’ in place of BC muscle exercise due to sheer laziness and the fact everyone is referring to BC muscle exercising as kegels.

I have experienced mixed results with Kegels - Ultimately for the better. I’ve used kegeling to suppress ejaculation during orgasm successfully but did experience a decrease in stamina initially. I believe reverse-kegels help. My experience is that reverse and normal kegeling can cause decrease in erection depending upon the situation. Reverse kegels almost always cause a loss of intensity of erection for me, delaying orgasm - a useful exercise during sex to train the mind that you are in control of the muscle.

I believe the use of kegels and reverse-kegels can help people to train themselves that the ‘spasm’ of the muscle can be controlled. By doing reverse-kegels your body gains experience working the muscle in a way that is not involuntary. So, by doing kegels and reverse kegels as part of an exercise process you are gaining better control of the muscle and training your body to not treat the use of the muscle as a trigger for ejaculation.

I’m not 100% but can successfully delay and suppress ejaculation through the use of reverse and normal kegels. However, it’s nearly impossible to use these practices while fully engaged in the act of sex. You’ll need to stop or drastically slow your activities as you approach the point-of-no-return and use the practice.

I’ve found that full penetration with very shallow stroking while using the reverse-kegel to delay and then full-kegel as PART of the way to defer ejaculation as it approaches - resulting in an orgasm without ejaculation and retaining of erection (get a good book on Tao/Tantric for more info). The light activity helps to keep your partner engaged and aroused. I can also see where very slight penetration and shallow stroking with a woman might work better for some since it will help ‘cool’ you down and continue to stimulate her area of highest sensitivity.

Kegeling is PART of the solution for those that want to last longer, not the entire solution. The full Tao/Tantric exercise is what will really help you. I learned about this in my early 20’s but only started more fully utilizing it more recently. The practice allows for male multiple orgasms and extended stamina. With practice you’ll actually reach the point you can conclude sex fully erect and having had at least one orgasm. It scared the heck out of my fiance’ when I resumed the exercise and practice - she was content with things like they were and became worried she couldn’t keep up with me and that I’d get into ‘marathon’ sex.

She’s a smart girl though. It didn’t take her long to see that such methods allowed me to avoid ejaculation and not go into the post-sex stupor we men typically do. She just had to get past the ejaculation=orgasm mindset that even most men can’t seem to wrap their head around. She even asks, when she’s doing BJ/HJ, if I really want to lose the energy as a result of the act (she’s too good at it for me to stop the process when she’s doing me that way).

Originally Posted by RandomGiant
This has happened to a bunch of people, myself included. You get these involuntary “mini” kegels that aren’t quite as long as a strong kegel that you do manually, but they are quick and forceful you can’t stop them and gradually they build up, and you come a lot quicker. The first time I started getting the involuntary kegels was over a year ago, and they still really aren’t gone, but I figured a way that helps to get rid of them, or at least help.

The problem is that by doing kegels “some people” train their BC muscles to contract involuntarily, the way you fix it is to untrain your BC muscle, and you can do this with reverse kegels done in a certain way. Reverse kegels keep you from performing a kegel, but your timing has to be right to stop them completely.

Its easy to practice this while masturbating, as I have noticed that I usually get the involuntary kegels when pressure or stimulation is applied to my dick. Since the involuntary BC contractions are short and forced, thats what your reverse kegels should be like in order to try to counter the kegels. Try it out, you will see that it can be a little hard getting used to it, but you should see some immediate results with less BC contractions.


You have described my problem exactly. It is identical to yours. It isn’t Kegel excercises that are the problem (as discussed at the beginning of this thread) it is involuntary BC flexing that is the problem I believe. And sometimes, one leads to the other. For example, a person might start Kegel excercises, realizes they feel good as well when having sex or masturbating, and so they start doing it then. Then it becomes involuntary. That is what I believe happened to me.

I will try as hard as I can to practice reverse kegels and see if it works.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this subject. Confusing the PC and BC muscle, linking kegels and the BC muscle to premature ejaculation, thinking a reverse kegel is something other than simply relaxing the BC muscle.

Well when my BC muscle tenses up and contracts involuntarily I’ve noticed that I cum a lot quicker, you want to be relaxed as possible for sex. A reverse kegel is relaxing the BC muscle, but its a forced relaxation. My problem is that I can’t always relax my BC without doing reverse kegels. I am saying that if I got involuntary contractions from doing kegels, why can’t I get involuntary relaxations(lol) from reverse kegels?

Originally Posted by Dicko7X5

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this subject. Confusing the PC and BC muscle, linking kegels and the BC muscle to premature ejaculation, thinking a reverse kegel is something other than simply relaxing the BC muscle.

I understand a reverse kegel is a relaxation of the BC muscle. However, when you have an involuntary contraction of the BC muscle, which has been reported by many to cause their premature ejaculation (I think it is accepted that squeezing the BC causes increased stimulation?) how do you relax the BC muscle? You have to force a relaxation so to speak, which is what I’m trying to learn/figure out.

Seeking some help from westla here:

Originally Posted by westla90060
Orgasm is caused by a complex series of chemical and neurological signals that cause contractions in various parts of male pelvis (of course women have orgasms, sometimes, but we’re not talking about them now) including the prostate, bulbocavernosus (BC) muscle, vas deferens, etc. It is not due to pressure on the prostate from a muscle.



The reason Kegels help with premature ejaculation is that the individual learns to control the muscle. And control is what is important with that disorder.



The role that the bulbocavernosus (BC) muscle plays is in the ejection of semen from the urethra. Contractions of the BC, along with contractions of the prostate and other parts of the system, force the semen from the penis in spurts. A stronger BC, build up by Kegels, helps both in the force of the ejaculation and in the rigidity of the penis, especially the glans.

Is this entire process how you define orgasm or is it just the chemical and neurological signals? Also, do you view ejaculation as separate from orgasm or inextricably linked?

I’m looking for some clarity concerning this control aspect of the BC. In the last piece of the quoted material, it appears that the only purpose of the BC is to act as a propellant for the ejaculate which implies several different things depending on how you view the relationship between orgasm and ejaculation.

I guess what I’m asking is what orgasmic and/or ejaculatory mechanism would BC control nullify? Does it simply prevent the semen from being expelled or is it something else?

Originally Posted by westla90069
The “reverse Kegel” is poorly named since it means simply relaxing the pelvic muscles. While a Kegel actively strengthens the BC muscle, a reverse one does nothing to the muscle. It just means you don’t contract it. You relax. Relaxing does not take away anything from a built-up or strength trained muscle. Stopping additional training might let it return to its previous state, but simply relaxing won’t do anything.

What is the normal state of the pelvic muscles? Are they not normally relaxed? And which pelvic muscles are we speaking of?

You’re a considerable asset to this forum and any clarification you can provide would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by tourniquet
Is this entire process how you define orgasm or is it just the chemical and neurological signals? Also, do you view ejaculation as separate from orgasm or inextricably linked?

I think most researchers separate ejaculation from orgasm while acknowledging that they usually occur simultaneously. It’s well known that men can attain orgasm without ejaculation and control of the pelvic muscles seems to play a major part in learning how to do that. Orgasm is said to be a whole body event which includes contractions of muscles outside the pelvis as well as mental states which vary from person to person. This is apparently why premature ejaculation is looked at as having significant psychological components and not merely a problem with too much sensitivity. Being able to control your physical as well as mental processes seem to both be components of achieving control and separating orgasm from ejaculation.

Some references:
http://www.whitelotuseast.com/MultipleOrgasm.htm
http://health.discovery.com/centers…ia-orgasm.shtml
http://www.thirdage.com/ebsco/files/14487.html

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I’m looking for some clarity concerning this control aspect of the BC. In the last piece of the quoted material, it appears that the only purpose of the BC is to act as a propellant for the ejaculate which implies several different things depending on how you view the relationship between orgasm and ejaculation.

I guess what I’m asking is what orgasmic and/or ejaculatory mechanism would BC control nullify? Does it simply prevent the semen from being expelled or is it something else?

The bulbocavernosus (more correctly called the bulbospongiosus) muscle is one of the major players in getting semen through the relatively long urethra. It works in concert with the rhythmic spasms of the rest of the male urinary tract to force the semen out in spurts forcing it as far into the vagina as possible. It also compresses the bulb of the penis which is the inner part of the corpus spongiosum/glans erectile apparatus. This causes blood to be forced into the CS and glans making them more rigid. The same nerves that supply this stimulus to the BC also cause the ischiocavernosus (IC) muscles (and other pelvic muscles such as the anus) to also contract. The IC muscles surround the inner parts of the two corpora cavernosa (CC) and when they are compressed the whole penis becomes more rigid allowing for deeper penetration at the moment of ejaculation.

Exercising some conscious control over these muscles is said to be the key to separating orgasm from ejaculation. You do not have control over the vas deferens, the prostate or other internal parts of the system, so learning to control the muscles you do have conscious control over is why it’s important. Learning how things “feel” just prior to ejaculation allows you to understand your body’s timing of the ejaculation. When the nervous stimuli begin to cause the contractions of the inner ducts and tubes, which is said to be the beginning of orgasm (see references above), you have only a few seconds to interrupt the stimulation and allow the signals to slow or stop. By strongly contracting the BC (and other pelvic muscles) you do two things. You send a competing nerve stimulus to them and you cause them to become fatigued. If you time it just right, you can experience the pleasant sensations of the orgasm while preventing the inevitable release of semen through ejaculation. It certainly isn’t as simple as it sounds. You must learn when your “point of no return” is and stop stimulation just before it occurs. You must learn how to contact these muscles and for how long to maintain the contraction. You have to mentally adjust to having the pleasurable orgasm sensations without the ejaculation you’ve come to expect at the same time. Not everyone can do it and it takes considerable practice to become proficient.

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What is the normal state of the pelvic muscles? Are they not normally relaxed? And which pelvic muscles are we speaking of?

Most books and articles written about this talk of the pubococcygeus (PC) muscle because that’s the major one in women. In my article Locating the BC Muscle I included illustrations showing how men and women differ in the location of the PC in relation to the sex organs. Since men have external sex organs the PC is located too high and inside to have any effect on them. Women, on the other hand, have internal sex organs that are intimately associated with the PC. Both sexes have PC, BC, IC and other pelvic muscles. It’s the relationship these muscles have to the structures of the sex organs that change the way exercises like Dr. Kegel’s contractions have on them. I would say most pelvic muscles are in a relaxed state. Even the sphincters such as the anus and the one at the neck of the bladder are relaxed even though you would consider them contracted. Sphincters are special muscles that create an opening when contracted rather than compressing something like the BC muscle does. You have conscious control over most of the pelvic muscles which can cause them to contract or relax.

The term “reverse kegel” is associated on this site with stretching exercises promoted by former member dld. He noted that when the penis is stretched or pulled on the BC reflexively contracts against the pull. Men new to PE exercises will know that this happens. Over time the BC stops responding to the pull of stretching exercises, but dld felt that consciously relaxing these muscles would increase the effectiveness of the manual stretching exercises. I don’t know it that’s actually true, but since it couldn’t hurt why not do it? So when members talk about using a “reverse kegel” to help in doing some exercise or to fend off premature ejaculation or to otherwise separate ejaculation from orgasm, they are talking about consciously relaxing the pelvic muscles. In men that would mainly be the BC and IC muscles which are intimately involved in erection and ejaculation. Sometimes this forced relaxation is when the muscles would normally be contracting (such as during or just prior to ejaculation). At other times it would be when a specific exercise is being done and you want to prevent “interference” with the exercise by the muscles involved. I can’t think of any reason to do a “reverse kegel” when not exercising the penis or working on multiple orgasms. Periodic forced relaxation of the muscles (doing “reverse kegels”) for no reason won’t really do anything except waste your time.

My personal experience with attempting to separate orgasm from ejaculation, which is admittedly limited, has shown me that forcing the BC to relax does not prevent the wave of orgasm continuing to ejaculation. What it does it cause the semen to “flow” out of the urethra rather than be ejected in spurts when I have the inevitable ejaculation. I believe (and I’m no expert) that forceful contraction of the BC/IC muscles, along with knowledge of the “point of no return,” is the better way to work on achieving multiple orgasms through separation of the pleasurable signals from the physical event of semen ejection. There are many printed and online guides to multiple male orgasm which present this information in a much better way than I can in a couple paragraphs.

Thanks westla.

Another fine post. Thank you Westla.

I know how old this thread is but it highlights great points.

I’m not sure if I have ever experienced multiple or “dry” orgasms before and so would like to find out if I have or not. What I experienced was the very first contraction of orgasm(very pleasurable but not quite as pleasurable as the following contractions). Right after this first contraction, I do quick kegel(maybe half a second) and this prevents the orgasm from developing into it’s full form.

Can any member who can dry orgasms enlighten me?

Originally Posted by deeznuts
You have described my problem exactly. It is identical to yours. It isn’t Kegel excercises that are the problem (as discussed at the beginning of this thread) it is involuntary BC flexing that is the problem I believe. And sometimes, one leads to the other. For example, a person might start Kegel excercises, realizes they feel good as well when having sex or masturbating, and so they start doing it then. Then it becomes involuntary. That is what I believe happened to me.

I will try as hard as I can to practice reverse kegels and see if it works.

Has anyone thought that if kegels ‘led’ to this involuntary contraction, that maybe you are on your way to strengthening/gaining control and that you just have to keep exercising it to break through to the next level so to speak?

Maybe people get freaked out when kegels seem to cause this involuntary reaction and stop kegeling for fear of making their premature ejaculation worse, but if they just continued doing the kegels they would overcome this and the contractions would eventually go away and you would have gained more control.

Maybe it’s like you have to take a step back to go forward down the line.

Any thoughts on this?

I just wanted to add to the connection between kegels and quicker climax. For years before I had ever done a single kegel, during masturbation I would use the same muscle contraction as an aide/stimulant. It would allow me to bring about climax when otherwise it wasn’t on its way. So to me there is a direct connection between the contraction and climax, if used during sexual activity prior to climax.

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