Thunder's Place

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My introduction and condom size for 4' girth

Originally Posted by johndough123

Jelqing distened my dorsal vein in only 4 sessions at moderate grip and 10 minutes maximum duration. I stopped early and have no significant loss on function, but my vein has not fully returned to normal. Just realize their are risks and others have been hurt doing proper technique.

What symptoms do you experience that you know that your dorsal vein has been distened?

A distended vein widens at one or various sections and can look non-symmetrical. When a vein becomes permanently distended it is generally considered a varicose vein and it is due to damaging the valves of the vein. The distended segment is in part due to blood pooling due to the faulty valve not being able to properly regulate circulation.

My vein looks better than it did, so that tells me that there was an inflammatory response. However, the vein still does not look like it used to even after weeks of no PE. The base of the dorsal vein also became more firm and moved significantly when touched, it never did such a thing before.

Originally Posted by wjug17
Actually 17 (almost 18). I was stupid enought to place my age on my nickname when I joined..

I was actually directing that at another guy! But I don’t blame either of you, I would of joined at 13 had I known about this stuff :)

Originally Posted by johndough123
Braindrain started at 18 or 19 well within the range of puberty, Kingpole started with ED, Titleist states in his progress thread that he has routinely done “three hour plus sessions a week” which are edema gains look at members Clubber and Longvehicle who also did extended pumping sessions both had massive girth gains and lost them over long breaks.

Some of these guys made good length gains and kept them over the break, I don’t dispute that. I stated that I believe length gains of around an inch are possible for some people, but not most people. It’s why members like Titleist and Saiyan stand out and their threads are among the most viewed on the site.

I only posted my previous post, so the OP can start with a clear head and try to approach PE objectively. It’s hard to properly evaluate everything when you have such strong emotions tied up into penis size, some people get so caught up with their size that they will risk functionality for any gains. You can disagree with what I posted; however, I think if you one takes into consideration my observations and actually tracks members posts/threads they will see patterns.

Originally Posted by johndough123
I’m not convinced even an inch in length is possible for most people, although I think for some it may be possible over a long period of time. I researched PE for months and found the evidence accross all PE forums to be very unconvincing. I do not think any girth gains are possible outside of EQ gains and swelling. You will have people tell you otherwise, but track their old posts. Most will have started with ED, young enough for late stage puberty, lose all girth gains over an extended break, have big claims but no pictures to document their progress, sell sone type of PE related equipment, claim they didn’t take accurate or any starting meaurements, ect.

Jelqing distened my dorsal vein in only 4 sessions at moderate grip and 10 minutes maximum duration. I stopped early and have no significant loss on function, but my vein has not fully returned to normal. Just realize their are risks and others have been hurt doing proper technique.

I bought a pump because there are studies that show they are relatively safe when used with caution. However, no real length or girth gains occurred in either study. Wikipedia takes a quote out of context from a study that used pumps to straighten the penis curvature due to peyronie’s disease making it sound like the pump actually lengthened the penis. When you actually dowload the study from a journal database and read it the researchers clearly state that the increase in length was due to and only correlated to the straightening of the curve. If you unbend a curved rod and measure it with a ruler at it’s furthest displacement you would expect the rod to measure longer without ever growing simply because you straightened it. This study used a protocol similar to avocets routine; two 10 minute pumping sessions everyday, but still had no gains in girth and only straightened the penis. Haven’t used my pump and I don’t plan on it because when unbiased researchers used it the same way we do, they saw no results. I plan on selling it.

I’d say if you work hard and stay consistent for a year you can make an inch in length and half an inch in girth. When I say hard you really need to care a lot about it and stick at it or you won’t gain that much. After that first year it becomes increasingly hard to gain. I haven’t gained much girth but getting am close to a 1.5 inches in length gain. I’m sure if I clamped and pumped plenty it would be easy enough to gain girth though. Oh but my girth gains are permanent, even when I stopped jelqing and all girth type work for months I retained my increased size.

The reason saiyan and titlest stick out as you so put it is because they quite literally stick out more than virtually everyone else on this forum and are active contributors. It 100% is not just swelling, swelling and lymph fluid build up when these people are doing loads of crazy routines but essentially they are stretching out the tunica allowing for more blood to be held in the penis. Big girth gains can be gotten, then when the rest is taken and the swelling is gone, there size will remain.

Oh and I’ve kept track of my dick measurements with a soft penis tape because I have a curve and it’s still present so none of my length gains came from ‘straightening of that’. I think you’re far to skeptical and assume the worst. Let the original poster think positively, positive thoughts equal positive results. Just work hard if you care about it!

Originally Posted by Audacia
I was actually directing that at another guy! But I don’t blame either of you, I would of joined at 13 had I known about this stuff :)

I’d say if you work hard and stay consistent for a year you can make an inch in length and half an inch in girth. When I say hard you really need to care a lot about it and stick at it or you won’t gain that much. After that first year it becomes increasingly hard to gain. I haven’t gained much girth but getting am close to a 1.5 inches in length gain. I’m sure if I clamped and pumped plenty it would be easy enough to gain girth though. Oh but my girth gains are permanent, even when I stopped jelqing and all girth type work for months I retained my increased size.

The reason saiyan and titlest stick out as you so put it is because they quite literally stick out more than virtually everyone else on this forum and are active contributors. It 100% is not just swelling, swelling and lymph fluid build up when these people are doing loads of crazy routines but essentially they are stretching out the tunica allowing for more blood to be held in the penis. Big girth gains can be gotten, then when the rest is taken and the swelling is gone, there size will remain.

Oh and I’ve kept track of my dick measurements with a soft penis tape because I have a curve and it’s still present so none of my length gains came from ‘straightening of that’. I think you’re far to skeptical and assume the worst. Let the original poster think positively, positive thoughts equal positive results. Just work hard if you care about it!

I have stated multiple times that some people appear to gain around an inch in length, but for most this does not happen. I’m not being negative, just read through the forums and see what most people report. I developed a realistic perspective after investigating claims and tracking posts. I didn’t limit myself to just thundersplace, I found the same results in PEgym, cheekycherries, Betterman, Mattersofsize, and other smaller forums. Thunders actually has the best evidence of any PE forum. Evidence has weight, people can make claims but without pictures and a standardized procedure for documentation the evidence has very little weight. Braindrain did an admirable job tracking his progress, although I personally believe his girth gains are mainly due to puberty because of his starting age.

In regards to plastic deformation of the tunica albuginea, there is absolutely no evidence of this occurring. In fact, the only place you will find it mentioned is on PE sites and forums. The tunica albuginea is only .25-.5 mm thick during an erection vs. about 2 mm when flaccid, which is why injuries occur much easier to an erect penis compared to a flaccid one. Furthermore, being only .25-.5 mm thick there is no way the tissue is going expand significantly even over a long period of time. One pump study that sought to determine if pumps could lead to penis enlargement tracked people for 6 months, yet still noted no gains. Pumping engorges the tunica albuginea with blood forcing the tissue to maximum expansion and would have the most promising effect on “stretching the tunica”, but even it had no effect. Jelqing does not force as much blood into the tunica albuginea as a pump. How do I know this? Because jelqing does not cause an erection. When a significant amount of blood enters the tunica albuginea an erection occurs because the blood fills the chamber and forces the tissue to expand. When the tissue expands to a maximum the tissue appears hard just like when you blow up a beach ball. Jelqing does not cause this unless you are becoming aroused by the motion, then the erection is not mechanically induced its naturally induced just as in sex or masturbation.

The medical community does not believe in penis enlargement because there is no evidence for penis enlargement. Even the surgical procedures are not accepted. Its not because penis enlargement is taboo, breast enlargement has blown up and is generally regarding as acceptable. Why then are penis enlargement procedures not getting the same attention? Its because no safe and effective procedure has been validated and standardized like what has occurred in breast enlargement. When and if a procedure for penis enlargement is proven to be safe and effective there will be a surge in both surgeons practicing and patients demanding penis augmentation, until then it will remain shunned by the medical community.

As for any possible non-surgical enlargement studies that may show some signs of penile lengthening are extender studies in Europe. However, those studies have had there legitimacy questioned in a thread here by various members including one who claimed to be a statistician. I am not talking about the garbage andromedical studies either, the studies discussed within the thread were supposedly “independently” conducted, one of which was the University of Turin study. Those studies showed no girth increase, but they did claim length increases after wearing the extender for hours daily over several months. Are those studies legitimate? The members in the thread didn’t seem to think so. Even if they are legitimate, I read the abstracts and they only showed length gains in the flaccid stretched penis. The exact correlation between flaccid stretched and erect length after mechanical augmentation is not known. So, assuming the studies are legitimate, assuming flaccid stretch has a strong correlation to erection length after mechanical augmentation, and assuming the injury rate is low, you still would only increase the length and have no effect on girth according to the studies. Certainly not worth the risk for someone who is primarily interested in increasing the thickness of their penis even if all these assumptions were shown to be real.

I’m not bashing PE, just discussing the evidence in both the medical literature and on the PE forums themselves. I would love for this stuff to work and be safe, but after months of reading I’m not convinced. I know I started PE because I was overly emotional about the prospect of my penis being thinner than average. I felt humiliated and demasculinated, despite being a fairly well rounded, successful, and stable guy. Had I not had this emotional uproar upon finding thundersplace I never would have started PE at my age after reading through the injury forum. Now that I have read more about others experiences with sex and reflected on my own experiences I feel much better about things and realize it is what it is. I can now more objectively look at the evidence and safety for PE without experiencing an emotionally charged denial. Just read the through the forum, I’m confident most who do so long enough will come to the same conclusions as I have.

Is there any incentive for the medical community to perform studies on non-surgical penis enlargement methods, such as jelqing and stretching?

“The medical community does not believe in penis enlargement because there is no evidence for penis enlargement.” (Which came first, the chicken or the egg?)

Wouldn’t they have to launch a proper study on the manual techniques that I mentioned to be able to make this conclusion?

There’s no documented evidence because they don’t care. I don’t think researchers are looking to validate the efficacy of what is essentially exercise when they can spend their time on other, more important issues. Also, how exactly do you envision researchers to monitor and track the participants in the study? The men would have to pull on their dicks in front of the researchers, possibly on a daily basis, with intensity, warm up, erection level being homogeneous throughout the participants. And this study would have to go on for months. The logistics of this study would be a nightmare, there are too many variables. But don’t get me wrong - I’m sure there are studies out there more in depth than this one would be, but nobody is touching it. Penis enlargement products in the United States are essentially jokes: they appear on late night TV via cryptic advertisements or in your junk email box.

I think your issue is that your pursuit for validation has gone on for too long a time, “I would love for this stuff to work and be safe, but after months of reading I’m not convinced.”

Maybe if you had spent those months working with a consistent routine you may have seen some changes in your penis. But you already lucked out in the beginning with your injury.

I guess PE just isn’t for you, you definitely have convinced yourself it isn’t.


Last edited by deusexmachina : 12-25-2010 at .

The medical community has researched non-surgical penis enlargement in terms of pumps, in one study specific for penis enlargement and others as an additional parameter to the primary goal. One can also argue extenders have been examined, but I haven’t evaluated the 2 potential legitamate studies out of Europe. The reason jelqing has not and will not be reasearched is because it makes no sense in terms of biology as to why it would work (see above post). No possible basis in biological principles plus potential for injury through compression trauma equals no funding and no clearance from a review board/ethics commitee. Stretching probably works in some fashion, anthropologists have documented cases of non-functioning penises being stretched permanently. Extender studies have been conducted and are analogous to manual stretching, I’m not going to claim they are legitamate because I haven’t read their methodology, but I will state other members on thunders were not convinced. Search function the thread for a few minutes it’s bound to come up.

There is as much incentive to investigate PE as there is for exercise science. Those researchers don’t patent the exercise tecniques, at best they write a profitable book. Research happens when you can aquire funding and pass a review board. In non-industry funded research the funding is the profit and incentive. If researchers could lay out a theory that was sound then funding could be aquired for non-surgical penis enlargement research. Such studies have been conducted in the past and other studies tracked size gains as an additional parameter to their treatment program that very much resembled PE techniques. The problem is research sets a precedence. If multiple studies fail to show a particular result, why would funding be given for an identical or similar study?

I understand people want to see a study on jelqing, it would conclusively end this debate for many people. However, why do you think jelqing can lead to permanent gains when pumping does not?

“However, why do you think jelqing can lead to permanent gains when pumping does not?”

The reported gains on this website from a large amount of members - are these fabricated? Or are the men delusional?

Some lie, some are delusional (ex. Horsehung), but most experience swelling and assume they are girth gains. It’s why the vast majority of reports conclude girth gains disappear over time. I also listed in above posts the common patterns you will see arise in almost all big gainers. Track their posts and threads you will see for yourself.

Jon, please stop hijacking the thread of the former user. Go spread your scepticism elsewere.


Ahora:Longitud: 18 BP Grosor: :littleguy avanzado a los 14 EG.

Metas:Longitud: 20 BP Grosor: 15 EG.

Fotos y progresos avantasia

Originally Posted by johndough123
why do you think jelqing can lead to permanent gains when pumping does not?

Jelqing and pumping are two totally different beasts. The force levels are different and the constriction points are different. You can’t compare the two…accurately anyway. IN fact, jelqing can’t be compared to anything because there are so many variables to it. No two people jelq the same. People can pump identically to someone else.

John, I understand your skepticism - I really do man. But this thread is off course. I think you should continue this discussion in another thread, perhaps make your own. While I do agree with you on most parts, I’m inclined to believe a lot of your arguments are only fueled by the unfortunate situation you are in with not being able to safely do PE. It seems like you have gone out of your way to convince yourself that this is all a hoax. Yes, people lie - a lot of people lie.

But not everyone does. Faith brotha…you gotta have a bit.

I joined when I was 16 but knew of Thunders when I was 15 and now I am 19 so it is possible to grow during the age of puberty all it takes is dedication towards your goals.


Started: NBPEL 5.5 == EG: 5

Current: NBPEL 7.5 == EG: 6

Goal: NBPEL 8 == EG: 6

Originally Posted by johndough123
Some lie, some are delusional (ex. Horsehung), but most experience swelling and assume they are girth gains. It’s why the vast majority of reports conclude girth gains disappear over time. I also listed in above posts the common patterns you will see arise in almost all big gainers. Track their posts and threads you will see for yourself.

You have every right to express your skepticism, but you need to be careful about calling any member a liar.

In my experience with PE, a lot of years, I had only one experience with lymphatic fluid swelling (a doughnut). I decided quickly I didn’t want that; I wanted sustainable, tissue growth and a non-squishy erection. Gradually, I gained 0.75 inch of girth, getting to 6.50 G years ago. I haven’t actually lost that. Yes, if I am not really turned on my girth is sometimes 6.25 but I pop back to 6.50 the next time or the next when the right stimulation is happening.

We need naysayers here, but be real polite about that if you want to be one of them.


_______________

avocet8

I appologize to the OP for hijacking the thread, my intent was to show him that his size is ok and he should exercise caution in regards to PE.

I have been careful to not name any members specifically as I do not want to insult anyone. The only name I did mention is an ex-member who was banned, I won’t go into details as to why he was banned because I am now unsure if it’s a violation of the forum guidelines. As I am now commonly stating, if you are interested track their posts.

My minor injury did stop me from jelqing, but not pumping or stretching. The lack of evidence made me stop PE all together. My distended vein forced me to weigh the risk to reward ratio and it’s high in the favor of risk relative to the evidence for reward. I’m not willing to risk my funtionality for half an inch length increase and no girth that are evidenced by 2 extender studies that various thunders members don’t even have faith in.

I’ve stated my case and am willing to look at evidence if people can present it, but no one has countered the studies, addessed the biological impossibilities of non-surgical girth gains, or even acknowledged the inconsistencies and patterns on all the PE forums (except Gator). If someone wants to create a thread about the evidence for PE I will post there. I will stop posting in this thread, so it can get back on topic.

So, wjug17, any updates?.


Ahora:Longitud: 18 BP Grosor: :littleguy avanzado a los 14 EG.

Metas:Longitud: 20 BP Grosor: 15 EG.

Fotos y progresos avantasia

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