Sparky, as we’re moving the PM onto the thread I’ll reply to it here. I’ve read your indicator thread, and actually I subsume it’s principles into my workout, in a real time kind of way. What the means is that during the actual workout itself, I use real time PIs to determine how hard to push. It’s the same as the bodybuilding principle of working to failure. The indicator that’s really important for me is the pain threshold - I figure it’s pretty reliable. Once I’ve hit a point where my dick is too “tired” to maintain a decent erection, I stop. Within a day or so I’m fully recovered. What I haven’t experimented with, and would like to try now, is adding golf weights or O-rings on the off-days to try and force the healing to be done in an enlarged state.
To answer your question about gains, I’ve been PEing for about 5-6 months. I started a proper routine last November. I just looked at my records and between November 5 and March 13 I gained 0.6 inches in length and 0.5 inches in girth. That works out to about an 20% volume increase in 4.5 months. Nothing spectacular, but it looks fairly steady at about 9% volume growth every five weeks or so.
Thats very respectable gains…however it maybe possible that it is the easy newbie gains…the real test is sustainability.
I think you are doing some right things here…if you were WAY off track, you wouldn’t get getting any gains at all.
I feel that if any PE takes more than a day off to completely recover, its too much. I have nothing to back that up at all, and it may turn out to be wrong…hell it may turn out that 2-3 days is best, but for now I advise no more than 2 days of time off for complete recovery.
It may turn out that daily mild pe with an occasional deconditioning break when gains slow (as opposed to increasing time/force is best…I’m leaning in that direction) is best.
I think empiric evidence is piling up that maintaining the stretch in the direction of the higher force strain, for a period of time, is most conducive to growth.
That basically means, for example if you hang, after you finish use a small amount of pe wt, like one of Monty’s rings, for a period of time (yet to be exactly determined) to maintain the expansion without inducing any further damage…while it sets or heals in place.
For those that are working girth, use some soft constriction device that doesn’t cause discoloration.
I personally have been experimenting with using both at the same time for both length and girth, following a vacuum hanging routine. (Monty has had great sustained gains with this approach, and uses very modest wts in his hanging routines, I give him the most credit in this area).
Xeno has been doing some great work in this area, take a look at it, although right now it is a highly technical discussion that may be intimidating.
Xeno is working on a thread where he will present it in a more user friendly form (I’m hoping anyway).
So, for you Dog…I believe bends are primarily a girth expander…I don’t know if that is what you are shooting for.
So, lets say you want both…I would say taper your routine so that you are FULLY recovered after one day. This will be our starting point.
Xeno refers to a micro cycle of PE in the morning, ADS AND ADC (use both if you can) for the remainder of the day, then remove the ADS and ADC for the night and the whole next day.
Then you would repeat the cycle. So its like a one on, one off. But it is specifically manipulation of different aspects of the day on and off.
I think for you, this is a very good place to start.
Do this for several weeks and measure your gains.
After a few weeks, I would recommend slightly changing the routine, so on your off day, you MAINTAIN your ADS and ADC for the whole “off” day.
Do that for few weeks and see which one gave you best gains.
Get back to me with your results…because I think THIS is really an important question to answer.
If I don’t answer within a day, PM me…I have so many threads I’m commenting on…I lose track! :)
Yeah I think we’re on the same page, what you mentioned about “That basically means, for example if you hang, after you finish use a small amount of pe wt, like one of Monty’s rings, for a period of time (yet to be exactly determined) to maintain the expansion without inducing any further damage.while it sets or heals in place” is exactly what I’m thinking. I’m going to get myself a golf swing weight and an O-ring. For 5 weeks (one measurement cycle for me) I’ll do the mini routine in the morning with ADS/ADC and a day off. Then for another 5 weeks I’ll go morning routine with ADS/ADC later and more ADS/ADC on the 2nd day.
By the way, have you been looking at 88man’s recent thread? I don’t know how to link to threads, but if you type “88man not a newb” into the search box it should come up. Take a look at the long post with the results of the sustained erection experiment. Very interesting.
To link, just highlight the address, right click and click on copy, then paste it on the reply box. I’m sure that was clear as mud.
Sounds great, I’m really interested in your results.
Remember to monitor the PIs, especially nite and morning wood.
Just to make sure you understand, pe in the morning and the rest of the day ADS and or ADC then remove it when you go to sleep, next day total rest…nothing at all.
Just wanted to give you an update. I made myself a cloth clamp from a strip of t-shirt material yesterday and did the following workout: warm-up, 20 mins or so. The warm-up consisted of some jelqs and some manual stretching.
Next, I moved onto the meat of this new workout concept. I used the cloth clamp and tied it off pretty tightly around my dick and did a standard (by standard, I mean high-intensity, short time) session. Following this session, I swelled up to about the usual measurements I get: 6.3 erect length and 5.5 erect girth.
Next, I loosened the clamp considerably and did a medium/low-intensity, medium time frame clamp session. I maintained 80%-100% engorgement (it varied). This lasted for the next 2.5 hours. Once I was done, I measured again and was very surprised. My erect length had risen to about 6.6, and my erect girth was 6 at the glans, 5.75 midshaft, and 6.5 at the base. I was astounded because I’ve never broken 6.5 in EL, but moreso I was astounded by the girth figures. I’ve never gone above 5.6 or so (6 or so at the base). In just one session, I stretched my dick out by about .5 inches in girth alone. Once I was done, I had a nice heavy flaccid hang - about 5.3 FL x 5.5 FG. This lasted for a couple of hours.
I did the math and that works about to about a 19% erect volume increase in this type of clamping session over a normal clamping session. That’s huge.
This obviously isn’t anything conclusive, but I think it shows that the plastic deformation effects of a longer, lower-intensity clamp are likely much greater than of a normal one. If I can reproduce this regularly, and I don’t see any reason why not, it should lead to greater gains provided there is enough recovery time.
I’m gonna duck off to the sports store to get a golf weight now. I want to experiment with a similar length workout experiment today, if I have time. Let me know what you think of this though.
A couple comments;
First of all…sounds good.
I think the cable clamp may be better for the high intensity session…try and see,then use the cloth for maintaining 50% or more as long as you can.
Make sure you maintain good circulation, that will be evident by having normal coloration and temp.
I think if you can keep at least partial erection the remainder of the day is best.
At nite take off any constrictor.
Now, you can either take the next day off completely or repeat the cycle. [so a one on, one off or a daily micro-micro cycle.]
As I have said, try a few weeks of each and see which one produces better results.
Now, as far as golf wts go…I think ADS actually works against girth gains…IF the wt is so heavy that it pulls you out to the extent you lose girth from the ADC.
I find one pe weight is enough to keep my length gains, but not so much that my inflation gets “deflated”.
Two pe wts will overcome my ADC and make me hang long and thin.
The next critical factor is what happens the next two or three days.
If you get great wood that nite, and the next day a long and heavy flaccid…I think you may be able to pull off a daily, micro-micro cycle.
Ultimately, I think that if you can recover in time for a daily micro-micro cycle, you will get the best gains…but that’s just my gut feeling, I have no real info to back that up.
With that heavy of a PE routine…I find it hard to believe you won’t benefit from at least one day off.
Me, even with modest pe forces, I need a day off. The only question for me is to whether I should do even lighter ADC/ADS on my off day…or take it totally off from everything.
I’m trying to determine that now.
You have good girth, I might mention that if you are trying to get length, I really feel girth builders work against length gains…in general.
Some gain both equally with bends and clamping, but most get mostly girth.
If you want length, I recommend focussing on that for now with hanging, then go for girth when you get near the length you want.
I think its pretty obvious you will be able to gain girth fairly easily when you are at your desired length.
Get back with what happens the next day, and that nite of your PE routine (looking for nite and morning wood).
Time for an update. Maybe your memory has become a bit rusty, but I’ve been doing the extended clamping session workout regularly for the last two weeks or so. I work some jelqs in afterwards and some manual stretching sometimes, but it’s hard because the clamp session takes 2 hours by itself. Sometimes I split it, 1 hour-1 hour. Either way, my next official measurement date is coming up tomorrow, so I jumped the gun by a day and measured today. The results, over the last 35 days (since March 13): EL: 6.4 (NBP) —-> 6.6 EG:5.4 —-> 5.7 FL: 5.1 —-> 5.25 FG: 5 —-> 5.2 FSL: 6.7 —-> 6.8
Bear in mind a couple of things: 1) over this 35 days period I only spent the last 12 days on the new experimental program and 2) over the past week I didn’t get to do much PE in general because I had a ton of work. Nonetheless, EG gains are by far the most impressive. The 5.7 measurement is at the midshaft; at the glans I’m now about 6” and at the base a little over 6”. Using the formula for volume of a cone as an approximation, this works out to a 13% volume increase in 35 days or so. That’s way above my projected 9%.
So far, I’ve noticed a couple of things. 1) It really helps to get a good pump in your dick by kegeling and holding it as hard as you can while you’re fully erect and fully clamped. After a few kegels you’ll get an incredible feeling of internal pressure; you can literally feel the pressure pushing outwards on the walls of the CCs. It gives a hell of a work out. Also, when doing this, it helps to put some external pressure on the penis by using one hand to prevent it from pulling downwards (when one is fully erect and kegels, this usually pulls the penis down somewhat). For some reason this also gives a really good pump. 2) To make the extended clamping session effective, you need to do it for AT LEAST one hour. You need to wear down/tire out the internal structure of your penis sufficiently so that it starts to break down. This usually takes an hour. In the hour after that, that’s when you will really noticeably stretch yourself out in all dimensions because the internal structures are starting to buckle under the pressure a bit. I usually go for about an hour, take a 1 minute break, then go for another hour. Often I have to use pornographic material to keep myself erect that long.
Overall, my workout over the past 12 days has consisted of: 1.5-2 hour extended cloth-based clamp session maybe 5 days a week; some kegeling randomly throughout the day; 10-15 minutes of stretching 4 times a week; and about 15 minutes of jelqing 3-4 times a week. Usually I find that I have a very heavy flaccid hang, especially after the extended clamping sessions. I’d like to do more jelqing and especially stretching, but like I said, I haven’t had much free time recently, so I focused heavily on the extended clamping experiment instead.
Some observations: at this rate of growth, I’m going to hit my target girth far before my target length. I’m going to try work in more stretching exercises. I still haven’t gotten around to using golf weights yet - everything I do is manual right now. Over the next 35 days or so I should have much more free time than I had in the previous 35, so I should be able to get better workouts.
Great gains! I have 2 concerns…1) Really high pressures for prolonged periods…I hope to God you don’t blow something out!
2) Significant tissue toughening might make length gains extremely difficult!
I think it’s going OK so far. The last 12 days have really been the set-up phase for how I’m going to go about doing this type of clamping in the long term (although even so, it looks like I’ve got some impressive gains in just a month). I know I’m getting really good pressure inside the penis, but I don’t think it’s that bad. The pressure is uncomfortable but NOT painful, and afterwards it feels somewhat tender, a lot like your muscles feel when you have a hard workout at the gym.
As for tissue toughening… that’s probably really more of a potential problem. I’m trying to work it so that the tissues don’t toughen (i.e. scar) too much by waiting until that tender feeling is completely gone from my penis before doing another workout. Right now, for me, that works out to about 4-5 workouts a week.