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What to Get Check if You Suspect Low Testosterone Levels?

I just wanted to chime in on a former post. About a decade back I weighed over 300 lbs (obese), was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure, and had sleep apnea.

I tried the “atkins” fad diet. I’m now at my ideal weight, I no longer have to take meds for my sugar or pressure, and my sleeping patterns are normal. There are many opponents of low carb dieting but it saved my life. I have never felt better. As to the diet effecting my T levels,…let’s just say that I’m happy with the size of my muscles and testicles.

Originally Posted by sleepy278
I just wanted to chime in on a former post. About a decade back I weighed over 300 lbs (obese), was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure, and had sleep apnea.

I tried the “atkins” fad diet. I’m now at my ideal weight, I no longer have to take meds for my sugar or pressure, and my sleeping patterns are normal. There are many opponents of low carb dieting but it saved my life. I have never felt better. As to the diet effecting my T levels,…let’s just say that I’m happy with the size of my muscles and testicles.

Did you have ED problems at that high weight?

If you answered yes, did it improve when you lost the weight?

I see low carb dieting working for some but I’m just more interested in how your hormones changed when you got to a healthier weight.


7-20-16: BP: 7.63 NBP 6.75 x 5.75

3-22-17: BP: 8.44 NBP 7.56 x 5.75

Originally Posted by Elduderino
Testosterone: information EVERY guy should know

I was diagnosed with low testosterone (T) about 6 months ago, after suffering various symptoms for at least 5 years. I have learned a lot about low T, I really wish I had learned this much earlier so I am posting this so hopefully I can help out some other guys. I am only 41 years old so what I have gone through is premature for my age, but EVERY guy will go through some of these symptoms if you live long enough so I urge you to educate yourself about it ahead of time. Low T is a bit of a taboo subject and most guys don’t talk about this kind of stuff even with their friends.

First off, I’m not a doctor, although I have a Master’s degree in biology, but what I have discovered is that most doctors don’t know a lot about low T and you have to educate yourself. I have done a lot of reading but by far the best reference I found is a book called “Testosterone for Life” by Dr. Abraham Morgentaler. He is a researcher at the top of his field from Harvard Medical School and he also readily admits that a lot of other physicians don’t know enough about this subject. I actually got the book from my on-line library (Overdrive) but I have noticed you can also get it from Amazon or download it from various free torrents. It’s a quick and easy read and it pretty much answers all the major questions or concerns that you might have about low T.

In my case, I started to see various symptoms when I was in my mid-30s, including noticeably lower sex drive, depression and anxiety, my mental sharpness seemed to decrease a bit, I gained weight, but the worst part was fatigue. I found that my energy levels by the end of each day were very low and I started to drink coffee and seek out vitamins and other remedies for the first time. All of this happened over a period of time so I thought maybe it was just natural effects of aging but I did talk to my doctor several times. He ran a battery of tests including thyroid, diabetes, etc. But never thought to look at testosterone. I did seem to get a bit of relief from some acupuncture treatments as well as vitamins (especially B vitamins) but the underlying problem was still there. My wife in the meantime was reaching her sexual peak, her own hormonal changes were causing her to be a lot more interested in sex, whereas my desire and energy was lower, which wasn’t the best combination!

Because of weight gain I started to exercise and lift weights more in the last couple of years and I also noticed that my muscle gain plateaued quickly and no matter how hard I tried I didn’t seem to be able to advance any further with muscle gains. I started thinking maybe it was related to age and lower T so I also tried various natural supplements to increase testosterone, including Maca, Longjack, horny goat weed, Tribulus, but none of them seemed to make any difference. After doing some more reading I finally came across Dr. Morgantaler’s book and it was like a big lightbulb went on.

So last summer I went to see my doctor and convinced her to run some tests. My original doctor retired and my new doctor is quite open minded. I made sure to get the “free testosterone” test recommended by Dr. Morgantaler as opposed to the “Total T” test that most labs do. Lo and behold it came back that my free T levels were quite low. My doctor was quite impressed that I had diagnosed this myself and I think she has also learned a lot in the process. My doctor prescribed Testim gel very day to bring my T levels up to normal and it has made a huge difference in my health and quality of life. Almost immediately I noticed improvement but it took about two months to fully experience health benefits, including weight loss, increased muscle mass, better mental health and sharpness, improved libido and best of all much higher energy levels. I actually had to stop drinking coffee because it now keeps me awake at night even if I only drink 2 cups in the morning. In many ways I feel like I am 20 years younger.

At this point you are probably asking yourself what about some of the risks of T? First off, most of the stuff you have heard about T is probably wrong, including some of the information about prostate cancer, enlarged prostate, risk of heart attack etc. There is a lot of mis-information on this subject and Dr. Morgantaler’s book talks about all these subjects. There is actually a lot of evidence that low or decreasing T has more health risks than a normal T level. Also, this is about bringing your T levels up to normal, not taking large doses like a bodybuilder.

I do take some of the info in this book with a grain of salt since some of it is based on his own (extensive) experience and observations but he’s very good about explaining the scientific literature and what has actually been documented. But for me, my health and quality of life has improved dramatically.


I don’t mean to high jack this thread, but I have to ask.

What dosage of Testim are you on? I was diagnosed with low T this year and have been taking Testim 1%, 50mg testosterone per 5g tube, for three months. The only time I feel a difference is when I rub the gel on my shoulders. However, that rush doesn’t last more than an hour or two, at best, and have yet to feel any long term benefits. No clarity of thought, or extra energy, and I haven’t gotten anything in the area of increased libido.

I plan on making a doctors appointment to have more blood work and hopefully get a boost in my dosage. I plan on reading the book you mentioned and taking it with me to discuss with my doctor, so thanks so much for posting that bit of information.

sed26,

I could achieve an erection most of the time but EQ was way down, and I was only good for one shot (very long refractory period). My penis was much smaller but that could be because it was buried in fat. My ejaculation volume was almost non-exixtent.

I read somewhere that if you are overweight then you will definitely have an estrogen surplus.

Naab: The gels do not work for everybody. Their skin is too thick for the gel to penetrate, they sweat it off, etc etc. They work for a lot of guys. You may be one that gel does not work for.

My skin did not absorb the Androgel. I tried striant after that, which is a little patch that goes on your gumline. I did not absorb that either. Doc put me on injections, and that has worked great. I inject twice a week and that keeps my levels pretty steady. Since the injectable testosterone is generic, my insurance pays for it 100%.

Originally Posted by sta-kool
Naab: The gels do not work for everybody. Their skin is too thick for the gel to penetrate, they sweat it off, etc etc. They work for a lot of guys. You may be one that gel does not work for.

My skin did not absorb the Androgel. I tried striant after that, which is a little patch that goes on your gumline. I did not absorb that either. Doc put me on injections, and that has worked great. I inject twice a week and that keeps my levels pretty steady. Since the injectable testosterone is generic, my insurance pays for it 100%.


Question. Do you inject yourself, or do you go to the doctor twice a week? I received injections for the first four months. I don’t remember the dosage, but it was useless. So I can only assume that one injection a month wasn’t enough. That’s why I’m going to read more on the topic and share with my doctor. I’ve read that a lot of doctors aren’t really that familiar with the topic. I’ve also talked to people here, and in my family (an older brother) who agree.

Hopefully my doctor won’t take offense to my coming in with study material , but I don’t think so. She’s always been pretty kool, and she’s easy to talk to because she actually listens.

Thanks for responding Sta-kool.

Originally Posted by sta-kool
Naab: The gels do not work for everybody. Their skin is too thick for the gel to penetrate, they sweat it off, etc etc. They work for a lot of guys. You may be one that gel does not work for.

My skin did not absorb the Androgel. I tried striant after that, which is a little patch that goes on your gumline. I did not absorb that either. Doc put me on injections, and that has worked great. I inject twice a week and that keeps my levels pretty steady. Since the injectable testosterone is generic, my insurance pays for it 100%.


One more thing. Did you get an improvement in your sex drive. Lately I’ve really been lacking in that area. Like Richard Pryor once said, “After I cum in need eight hours of sleep and a bowl of Wheaties.” That shit is frustrating as hell, too.

Naab, I am using one tube of Testim gel per day. It is working for me but doesn’t work for everybody. I definitely notice it more right after application and apparently the dosage tapers off quickly after 2 hours. Injections are supposed to be the most reliable but once per month sounds too infrequent to me.
I showed my doctor the book by Dr. MOrgentaler and she was pretty open to trying stuff out, I think it helps that it is written by a physician and he has very good credentials.

My sex drive came back with a vengeance, I feel like I am 25 again. However my equipment does not operate “on demand” like it did back then. But everything works well with my wife when I need it to.

^

Thanks sir. I’m definitely going to get that book and show it to my doctor.

Naab:

For injectable testosterone, the standard protocol is 1 injection per week. I divide my dose in two and inject on Mon and Thurs, I feel like this keeps my levels pretty steady.

Once a month would cause you to have high levels the week of your injection, and then you would crash for the rest of the month.

So that probably explains partly why it is not working for you. You do not have consistent levels.

Also it takes a while for the testosterone to saturate your bodies tissues. In my case it took about a month or two for my body/brain to feel the effects.

A couple weeks in I had a HUGE jump in libido. I was ready to re-populate the earth single handedly. This lasted for a few weeks (t receptors were starving at first, then you normalize), and then my libido tapered down to the level I had before my testicles failed. Which was pretty darn high. My libido is excellent.

Additionally it takes a while to get the dosage adjusted. My doc would try a dose, then after a month we would retest my levels and adjust accordingly.

Additionally you have to find out what a “normal level” is for you. So it is a process getting the dosage correct. My doc and I are pretty sure I was a high normal when my testicles were working.

So for example, the normal range for total testosterone is between 255 ng/dL and 1010 ng/dl. (I came in to the doc with 159 ng/dL) I did not feel normal until we got my levels in the high 800s ng/dL range. (I am mid 50’s)

=======

I do the injections myself. It is not difficult, and it doesn’t hurt really once you get past the nervousness about doing it. It just isn’t a big deal. Nurse demonstrated it with saline (i think) and then had me do it couple times. I inject in my quads, alternating between left and right.

======

I am doing my hormone replacement with a urologist. You might consider asking your doc for a referral to a urologist or endocrinologist, as they know more about this than a general practitioner. Your doc will not be insulted if you ask her for a referral.

I had an endocrinologist initially, he was an older guy, I don’t think he kept up with the latest research, and it wasn’t a great experience.

I switched to a urologist when the endocrinologist moved away. He is a younger guy, he actually listens to me and has really been great.

Any more questions, please ask.

Quote
If you have normal T levels and you take supplemental T it will reduce your natural production.

The above is a really important concept. This is true of many sorts of supplementation and is particularly true with regard to one’s hormones.

There is a real danger to the whole “more is better” paradigm.

Taking Testim or other sorts of testosterone boosters may well be the answer to some folks problems; however I thinks people should consider that this is unusual and often, for most (especially young folks), totally unnecessary - particularly folks who are, say, under 40. Supplementing without cause could easily end up screwing up your hormonal balance and throw your natural systems out of whack.

Elduderino seems to have done his homework. Anyone who is even considering this course of action should do the same.

Originally Posted by sed26
To be honest I think it’s just thatmy estrogen is high which is why I’m experiencing this stuff.

What do you base this on? So far, from what I’ve read in this thread it’s your gut feelings rather than any actual evidence.

So you have a few extra pounds - more than you’d like - and maybe a little extra gynomastic fat on your pectorals? Neither of these things are proof positive of either elevated estrogen or low testosterone. In fact, one of the causes of actual gynomastia is due to excess testosterone being converted to estrogen (especially as a result of the use of anabolic steroids or wanton testosterone supplementation); the body has more T than it can actually, healthfully use and it converts it to put the breaks on developing the sorts of problems that many steroid users face. Which include lower sex drive, by the way.

Other causes of gynomastia are:

Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynecomastia

HypogonadismAny of the conditions that interfere with normal testosterone production, such as Klinefelter syndrome or pituitary insufficiency, can be associated with gynecomastia.AgingHormone changes that occur with normal aging can cause gynecomastia, especially in men who are overweight.

TumorsSome tumors, such as those involving the testes, adrenal glands or pituitary gland, can produce hormones that alter the male-female hormone balance.

HyperthyroidismIn this condition, the thyroid gland produces too much of the hormone thyroxine.

Kidney failureAbout half the people being treated with regular hemodialysis experience gynecomastia due to hormonal changes.

Liver failure and cirrhosisHormonal fluctuations related to liver problems as well as medications taken for cirrhosis are associated with gynecomastia.

[…]

Pure glandular gynecomastia is common in bodybuilders and is thought to be a result of the use of anabolic steroids.

So you see, sometimes the desired results of a self-diagnosed ‘cure’ can actually exacerbate the condition, or obscure a condition that needs attention.

Originally Posted by sed26
I’m taking an OTC supplement called PES Erase to suppress estrogen and boost test.

Yes.

But you could, in fact, be adding to your ‘problems’; think about it.

Originally Posted by sed26
I heard great things about it from various sources.

You heard.

I’m glad the PR on the product is good. No doubt it makes the manufacturers very proud - and happy - to lighten your wallet.

Originally Posted by sed26
Wtf they have healthy range all the way to 19%!

Because it can be perfectly healthy. The human body functions within a range of parameters, based on genetic disposition, environment ( climate and by extension diet), etc.. No doubt for some 19% body fat is pushing it, for others it might well be just fine.

Of course if you feel your are a bit too pudgy and want to make a change in your life there’s nothing whatsoever wrong with that. I would just recommend that you go about changing that in more cautious and long-term healthy way. What’s wrong with diet and exercise, for example?

Dupont’s slogan “Better living… through chemistry” only goes so far. If you are uniformed about what you are doing there is huge potential for it to backfire. I am therefore unimpressed with “I heard great things about it.” That’s fine as far as it goes, but it only goes so far.

Originally Posted by sed26
I think once I drop from 17% to about 10-12% bodyfat my levels of test would improve. I made great changes to my diet adding foods that help the production of testosterone so diet is in check.

I’ll say one more thing. It is normal for men to have estrogen in their systems. Estrogen is not the enemy, but it often seems that it is treated as such around here. It has a number of important functions for our biology. Just as testosterone has for women.

What’s important to keep in mind is that it’s about proper balance. That is the key idea. It isn’t the case that if you are a man: estrogen = bad, testosterone = good. Nor is the reverse true for women.

It’s about having a healthy balance. So before you rush off to ‘fix’ a problem that you mostly have an idea about: DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE.

As Elduderino has.

Don’t risk throwing your body’s hormonal balance into a tailspin because ‘you heard’ or ‘you think’ - do the legwork to know what you’re really up against.


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:


Last edited by Mr. Happy : 01-01-2012 at .

Everything you’ve written is true, Mr. Happy. That’s why we’ve been trying to encourage the OP to go to the doctor for a fasting blood draw and stop the guess work. I can only hope he takes that advice before he starts taking over the counter “natural” testosterone boosters (if there’s really such a thing) and screwing up his body. Especially after stating that he’s only 22.

While I’m at it, sed26, please guy, go to the doctor. Make sure you don’t have diabetes, or something else that can share the same symptoms as low T, hopefully before you start taking stuff all willy nilly.

I appreciate that Naab.

At 22 it would highly unusual for testosterone levels to be off. Within the realm of possibility? Sure. Could be. But highly unlikely.

It’s like older folks in their 40’s or 50’s getting erection problems and immediately reaching for some internet Viagra or Cialis. Sure, it may fix the immediate symptom, but the fix may also mask another, more important, problem.

Diabetic pre-symptoms for example.

Automatically blaming low testosterone on gynomastic pectorals could very well be a overreaction. As a young man (early 20’s) I had some man boobs that made me self-conscious. I wanted to know if anything could be done about them. Turns out it was a completely normal side effect of puberty, growth spurts and baby fat. The doctor recommended I chill out and by the time I was 30 my huge ‘problem’ was a distant memory.

I don’t propose to have the answer for sed26, but I submit that I and others here are proposing some good questions.

They are worth asking and seriously and thoroughly investigating.


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:


Last edited by Mr. Happy : 01-01-2012 at .

You are really young to worry about low testosterone. But, if you do pursue it, get your blood test from the doc and see about a natural compounded cream. Get off porn. In my opinion, not only is it morally inappropriate, but also desentisizes you. Exercise and lead a healthy lifestyle. Eat right and enjoy life.


HoustonWoods

Beginning stats 3/2010: BPEL: 6" Flaccid: 3.5" Erect Girth: 5.25

Stats as of 8/2015: BPEL: 8" Flaccid: 6 1/2" Flaccid Girth: 5.25 Erect Girth: 6 5/8"

Look, we need to call a “Time Out” here. Way too much confusion about HRT.

- No legit doctor will prescribe Hormone Replacement Theory to someone whose testosterone levels are normal. You will only be treated for HRT if you are below normal range or borderline.

- If you have low testosterone, you should be treated. If you do not get treated you will damage your body (degenerative diseases) Testosterone is way more than Muscles and Libido. See The Testosterone Syndrome. by Dr. Dr. Eugene Shippen, M.D*

- If you are on hormone replacement therapy, your testicles will stop making testosterone and sperm. The testosterone part does not matter, because they were not making enough for you. If you decide you want to have a baby, your doctor will put you on a medicine that will “turn on” your testicles again so that they make sperm cells. (this addresses earlier misinformation in the thread)

This is not something you play around with. Your quality of life will be shitty, and your body will degenerate and you will die sooner.

If you have low testosterone, you need to be treated. That’s it.

======================

* First two paragraphs of Dr. Shippen’s book:

f I told you that one key substance in the body is more powerful than any other health factor, is more closely linked to risk of illness if and when deficiency occurs, is more misunderstood, more improperly used, and more tragically underused than any other, what would it be? Testosterone! I have studied it, prescribed it, and watched the responses of my patients-hundreds of them. I challenge anyone to find a more diversely positive factor in men’s health. When normally abundant, it is at the core of energy, stamina, and sexuality. When deficient, it is at the core of disease and early demise.

Testosterone deficiency has been an unrecognized syndrome that impacts every sinew and cell in the body. It is powerfully linked to nearly every major degenerative disease. Use of this remarkably healthy hormone could reverse suffering and prevent early death. My research uncovered a mountain of medical literature that has been basically ignored supporting its benefits.

=====================

Again I do not know what is up with sed26, and again like Naab I want him to go to the doctor to see what is going on. Diabetes, thyroid function?

And to Mr. Happy and all other men, I recommend that you have your testosterone levels checked as well. If anything ever goes wrong, you will have a normal baseline, so your doctor can see what it was like and set dosage accordingly.

Hope this helps.


Last edited by sta-kool : 01-01-2012 at .
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