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Weaker erections since starting Propecia

Originally Posted by peforeal

Avocet8, on the impotence site that you reference do you find that most of the negative propecia side- effects are experienced by younger male visitors?

Yes. Most have been in their twenties, early thirties. Several found, after having hormonal panels done, that their Testosterone, Free T, and E were way off. Those who subsequently underwent T replacement therapies had trouble staying regular (the common “roller coaster” effect of that; a couple weeks of being normal, then dropping down again, no libido, tiredness, etc.).


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avocet8

Since Finasteride blocks 5-AR conversion of Testosterone to DHT, that’s one less enzyme ‘avenue’ for Testosterone to convert to, so chances are you’ll have not only slightly higher Test, but very likely more Estrogen as well. Worse is that it also seems to inhibit Progesterone (or its effect at least), and the balance of Progesterone to Estrogen (in fact the balance of all the hormones) is a tough thing to manage with pills.

I don’t know why older guys would suffer less with Finasteride, but since their hormone profile would generally have lower test and higher fat(estrogen), that might be a lead. The half life of Fin is pretty short, so I would expect it to be out of the system within a day or so, so a week off to evaluate the difference might be in order.

I never had any issues with Finasteride, and I took Proscar pretty much since propecia hit the market until earlier this year, but I’ve quit finasteride for now as I’ve learned to value DHT and that it isn’t my enemy. Systemic blocking of DHT is a kak handed way of stopping hair loss anyhow, so even if you do choose to stay on it I would be actively looking to hop onto something else as soon as is feasible.

@Dino: No, PE can’t be an issue because I’ve just started it and taking much care of my unit to not overwork it, especially in the beginning.

@shiver: good comment. I think a blood test would be a good way to control values of the hormones. Indeed, when T rises too much, a certain amount of it, which the body doesn’t need, can be transformed to estrogen (the process is called “Aromatase” in german). High Estrogen can be very dangerous, it can induce breast growth, make you fat and so on. I believe it can also reduce sex drive.

I’ve already undergone a blood test after 3 months into Fin and the hormone values were all in a regular range.

I also wonder why some guys experience side effects from Fin while others don’t. For the first group, the standard Fin dose for treating male pattern baldness of 1mg might be too high (because Fin works “better” for them or they have less DHT), so that the negative effects appear, while for the latter group, the Fin dose of 1mg is just under the critical amount to cause any side effects.
So I think lowering the dose should be a road to try.

Another point is that in the case of many Fin users, their body seems to regulate the hormone levels by itself to restore the balance, while in the treatment. It’s the only way to explain why sexual problems which occur in the beginning tend to fade away after some months. Of course, one could wonder if, given it was true that the hormones rebalance, Fin still has an effect on lowering DHT and thus on MPB. It’s hard to tell HOW the rebalancing might take place in practice.

Regarding other treatments against MPB than Finasterid:
Unfortunately there are only Minoxidil and Finasterid which have proven to eventually have some effect. All the others are snake oils. Another soon solution could be hair multiplication but it’s not ready yet. Of course I’d like a more satisfying solution than Fin, both on the result and on the side effects side.

Originally Posted by Tyler22
@shiver: good comment. I think a blood test would be a good way to control values of the hormones. Indeed, when T rises too much, a certain amount of it, which the body doesn’t need, can be transformed to estrogen (the process is called “Aromatase” in german). High Estrogen can be very dangerous, it can induce breast growth, make you fat and so on. I believe it can also reduce sex drive.

Formestane would likely be a good option here. On paper at least it should improve sex drive. I’m about to order some from 1fast400, so I’ll update if I notice anything.

Originally Posted by Tyler22
I also wonder why some guys experience side effects from Fin while others don’t. For the first group, the standard Fin dose for treating male pattern baldness of 1mg might be too high (because Fin works “better” for them or they have less DHT), so that the negative effects appear, while for the latter group, the Fin dose of 1mg is just under the critical amount to cause any side effects.
So I think lowering the dose should be a road to try.

Here’s one thing I noticed about Fin (and one of the reasons I quit it). I had no adverse affects with Fin, but noticed that if I went out on an excessive alcohol campaign, the following day I would have fairly severe social anxiety and lack of confidence. When I quit the Fin I no longer suffered those. It took me a few years to link the two together, but I’ve tried it off/on/off/on and the results for me are indisputable. I attribute this to alcohol lowering Testosterone, and in combination with Fin it just sent me over the edge. Your mileage may vary.

Originally Posted by Tyler22
Another point is that in the case of many Fin users, their body seems to regulate the hormone levels by itself to restore the balance, while in the treatment. It’s the only way to explain why sexual problems which occur in the beginning tend to fade away after some months. Of course, one could wonder if, given it was true that the hormones rebalance, Fin still has an effect on lowering DHT and thus on MPB. It’s hard to tell HOW the rebalancing might take place in practice.

Another concern here is that with lowered DHT, there may be a tendency for the Androgen receptors to upregulate in number, sensitivity, transcription or translation rate to compensate. If that is the case then hormone values would be less important than ratios. Further, if you quit Fin at a later date, the upregulated AR may produce amplified effects in hair loss for a few weeks, so a transitional protocol (topical?) may be prudent.

Originally Posted by Tyler22
Regarding other treatments against MPB than Finasterid:
Unfortunately there are only Minoxidil and Finasterid which have proven to eventually have some effect. All the others are snake oils. Another soon solution could be hair multiplication but it’s not ready yet. Of course I’d like a more satisfying solution than Fin, both on the result and on the side effects side.

We live in interesting times regarding MPB, and I’m highly confident that we are the last generation that will have to suffer it. Although I don’t have any wonder regrowth experiences, I do highly recomment one product called Inframil (from Lipoxidil.com). It is not intended to regrow hair, but to stop the inflammation and fibrosis of the scalp. If anyone suffers itchy scalp then this is well worth a try. I didn’t realise that my scalp was in such bad condition until I tried this. It gets to work in just a few days and maintenance is only twice per week (apply for about 20mins then shampoo out).

Btw: Where did you get the pic for your avatar?

I guess some were already waiting for me to chime in: I am tanking 1mg finasteride daily since 1997. Also, I am seriously into Body Building, i.e. to keep my body as long as possible in an anabolic state to support protein synthesis into muscle mass - I started in January 2004 with intense weight training and I raised my body weight from 76 kg to alomst 90 kg since then. I raised my max bench press weight from 80 kg to 100 kg. What does this mean? Without having had a blood test (which still would be very intersting I admit) I can be quite sure that my free test levels are at least normal, my progress in weight training would have been impossible with low test levels. Well, and my standard statement: No erection problems over here.

Some will say “Good for you, but what does it mean for Tyler” - my post was just meant to imply that the thesis, missing DHT in the system might reduce test receptors or promote estrogen receptors, sounds quite false to me. I am joining a German BB board. Some gusy there are real hormone gurus. You know what? I am going to confront them with this theory right now. Many of those, who supplement with steroids with strong anabolic effects also take Propecia to keep their hair. Let’s see what they say (no, they are no weirdos, the have a quite scientific conduct!).

Cheers!


...not buried yet, another 5" ahead!

KPR 0.072 @ Dec. 4, 2003

L Born,

What I was saying is quite the opposite. My bet would be that AR receptors upregulate in order to calibrate with reduced DHT. Further, if you’ve been on Fin for so long, I’ll bet that if you quit it, you’d see a window of improvements for a few weeks in the gym before AR sensitivity re-adjusted. It might be worth cycling off for say 3 weeks out of every 6 months and replacing with a topical to take advantage on that in the gym. I’m sure you’d see strength gains at least.

Sorry for the confusion! Regarding the cycling suggestion I already stumbled over this in another thread here. I am already considering this, but I might spare it for the time when I will be hitting a plateau and also creatine does not help to overcome it. Thanks !

Meanwhile already one of the members of this other forum responded, it’s not much info, but he says he has no own experience, but his cousin, who is on Fin recently mentioned not to be that occupied with sex-related thoughts anymore, which might indicate lower free test level :rolleyes: …I am waiting for more profound replies…


...not buried yet, another 5" ahead!

KPR 0.072 @ Dec. 4, 2003

@Shiver:
Tell me later about your experience with Formestane. Is it to block aromatase (transformation of excess Testosterone into Estrogen)?

I haven’t experienced any side effects of Fin in conjunction with alcohol yet, though I don’t drink that much.

The upregulation thesis has been discussed a lot on hairloss forums. The conclusion is that there ain’t no scientific evidence for that. If you stop Fin, hairloss just progress like if you wouldn’t have taken it in the first place, that’s what most users experience.
Unfortunately, there ain’t no potent topical solutions on the market right now (Minoxidil does only little improvement to most, including me, if any). Members of hair loss forums all around the world await PS1 to come out soon, which is promising, but I don’t know the background, i.e. how it works.

I don’t have itchy scalp issues since I went from regular Minoxidil to Minoxidil without Propylene Glycol. But maybe I’ll give Inframil a try, if I encounter bad scalp conditions again.

My avatar is the CD cover of a song called “God is a girl” from Groove Coverage, a german pop band.

@L Born:
I’m into BB too for several years and since taking Fin I haven’t had any problems whatsoever to build up muscle mass, I would even tend to say that muscles are growing easier than before Fin.

What I don’t know is: Is it more testosterone solely or rather Dihydrotestosterone which is responsible for supporting muscle growth? If it was testosterone, then the 5ar-inhibition-effect through Fin, which reduces the transformation from testo to DHT, would make more “unused” testo available in the blood, and so for muscle build-up. This would explain our easy gains in body building.
BUT the lowered DHT could well be responsible for my erection problems, because I believe that it is DHT more than testo which is responsible for erections.
However my libidio, my sex drive are still very present. Sometimes I have lust to do it 3 times a day. Maybe it is more testo which is responsible for the sex drive and DHT for the erection quality.

So the questions remain: Why do I and not you experience erection problems since Fin? The raised Testo level acts the same way for both of us (i.e. promoting muscle growth), but the lowered DHT level do not. As stated above, I think that 1mg of Fin simply acts stronger on me than on you, that is the dose should be adjusted depending on one’s physical constitution. For example I’m not as big as you, my weight is about 75kg. So I’ll check to lower my dose.


Last edited by Tyler22 : 10-05-2004 at .

DHT would have little role in muscle building since the muscles have an abundance of 3Alpha-HSD enzyme which pretty much deactivates DHT on contact, so it’s the Test does all the work. DHT would help in the sense that it is very androgenic, so it would probably give you strength gains, confidence and libido. DHT has an AR binding affinity of around 3 times more aggressive than Testosterone, so a small reduction in DHT could have significantly more effect than an equivalent reduction of Test (all else being equal).

The way substances affect people vary widely, even for people of the same weight, so if you feel it is affecting you then experiment with reducing the dosage to see if it helps. Failing that, a blood test hormonal profile might be helpful in seeing what is actually going on.

Tyler22, you are raising some interesting points. Especially the lust/test- and erection/DHT-relation sounds worth looking at closer. Being a lazy arse I - of course - will wait for other members’ input on this. This subject is not suitable to ask in the BB forum - these guys are not that aware of their penis it sometimes seems :D


...not buried yet, another 5" ahead!

KPR 0.072 @ Dec. 4, 2003

So far, so good for me. Just started last month.

Propecia is actually intended to reduce the size of the prostate gland. The hair gain is a side effect. Stop using it and go for RECAPEEN instead. It will get you your hair back.

Originally Posted by kundun
Propecia is actually intended to reduce the size of the prostate gland. The hair gain is a side effect. Stop using it and go for RECAPEEN instead. It will get you your hair back.

What? Never heard of that before. Tell us the link to one or several studies confirming it “gets your hair back” what I believe NO medicine is able to do, since if you lost your hair 20yrs ago, the follicles are so degenerated that they produce only thin, transparent hairs.

For you guys who do find yourselves in trouble after using Propecia or finasterid, here is a link to a site which discusses this and may be a help.

http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/


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avocet8

Originally Posted by avocet8
For you guys who do find yourselves in trouble after using Propecia or finasterid, here is a link to a site which discusses this and may be a help.

http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/

I read this guy’s story quickly, and I feel fortunate to not have been hit that hard by side effects, like this guy.
At the opposite of him, I’ve never lost my libido, i.e. the lust for sex, I had only weaker erections than normally.
Luckily, taking L-Arginine orally has solved this problem! I’ve got my rock hard erections back and I can’t describe how happy I am about that, especially when you read stories like this.
I take Arginine less frequently now and still maintain a good erection level, but I might take it again as a temporary cure now and then, for some weeks, and then put it off.

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