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Question on morality

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I doubt you really think that odds of transmission — or commonness of the disease — doesn’t matter.

On the first point, if I were HIV positive, should I have to tell someone I play basketball with, in case in the course of a game we have a nasty fall together and our bloody wounds touched? No, because the chances of transmission in that case are infinitesimal, and my right to privacy outweighs another person’s right to know of the “risk” they’re taking by playing basketball with me. (The case UT is talking about involves chances much greater than this, but the point is just that odds do matter.)

On the second point, consider HSV 1 (one type of herpes), which the majority of the adult population harbors in their mouths, regardless of whether they know of it or not. If I happened to be aware that I am positive for HSV 1, should I have to inform anyone I kiss, even though they probably already have it too? (Again, UT is talking about something somewhat less common — presumably HSV 2 on the genitals, which only about a fourth or a third of adults have — but the same principle applies, that it’s not a super-simple black-and-white issue.)

For what it’s worth, I have had a thorough STD screening and am not positive for anything, even HSV 1, so I’m not throwing this stuff out there as self-defensive rationalization. I genuinely think it’s a tricky issue, and I think it’s worth thinking about the rationale for why some decent people would not feel obligated to tell a prospective sex partner about being HSV positive, even if they know it — if anything, it makes you realize, even more, that every time you have sex with someone new, you’re taking a risk of STD transmission, and you need to do everything in your control to minimize that risk.

To be selfish, or not to be?

I believe if you have anything that can bring harm, pain, or suffering to anyone other than yourself it’s your duty to inform them.

The truth normally hurts, but it needs to be said regardless of YOUR DESIRES.

If I ever became HIV+ I would give up my sex life. There’s a risk I could infect someone. That risk is small if I followed the proper precautions, however that risk is STILL there and personally I don’t want to put myself in a position where I’m responsible for someone else's pain and suffering.

Honesty is the best policy IMO.


I'm a big fan of 50 Cent, or as we call him in Zimbabwe, four hundred million dollars.

STDs that kill are one thing, but herpes? I can only imagine the scenarios:

- “I don’t know how to tell you this, but I tested positive for HSV-1. Can I still kiss you?”
- “No grandma, you most certainly can not! You dirty tramp!”

Something like 80% of people have been exposed to HSV-1 (the predominantly oral type)by the time they are 60 years old. Personally, I would rather get genital herpes (generally HSV-2) rather than oral herpes. At least you can hide that if you get outbreaks. I would guess that many if not most people that have genital herpes don’t even know they have it.

When I drive someone somewhere in my car I don’t look at them and say, “You know, driving is very dangerous and you could die during this car ride.” We all know the risks of driving in a car and we all know the risks of sex. Deal with it. Beside, if someone is dumb enough to have sexual intercourse with someone that has open wounds or blisters on their junk it is their own stupid fault. (not that this has to happen for someone to get herpes).

Whether you should tell someone is a personal moral choice.


Start: 8"BPEL 5.9" girth Current: 8.5"BPEL 6.5" girth Goal: 9"NBPEL 6.7" girth


Last edited by suziesun12 : 07-31-2009 at .

Originally Posted by suziesun12
When I drive someone somewhere in my car I don’t look at them and say, “You know, driving is very dangerous and you could die during this car ride.”


Everything in life has a risk but what if you knew the steering was shonky and the brakes were fucked? You’re allowing them to travel in a dangerous vehicle.

Quote
Whether you should tell someone is a personal moral choice.


That’s true. But how would you feel if YOU were on the receiving end? No doubt YOU would change your opinion and bitch, whinge and complain about how you were hard done by.

Personal moral choice or selfish desires. What’s the difference? :-k

On one hand, your partner (one night, short term or long term) has the choice to take the risk. By not informing them, you remove their liberty to choose to take that risk.

There have been court cases involving this sort of thing before. When you willfully neglect to inform your sexual partner of something that may potentially harm them you’re technically causing grievious bodily harm and possibly manslaughter if they die as a result of your actions. Mind you, that is an extreme, but considering the world we live in today, it’s an extreme that is very possible to happen.


I'm a big fan of 50 Cent, or as we call him in Zimbabwe, four hundred million dollars.

Originally Posted by Tossed Salad
On one hand, your partner (one night, short term or long term) has the choice to take the risk. By not informing them, you remove their liberty to choose to take that risk.

Anyone who weighs the risks of a one-night stand based on what their prospective sex partner says about his or her disease status is an idiot. Not that idiots deserve to get diseases — they don’t, no one does — but the point is that the vast majority of people with HSV-2 don’t know it (and many of the women have had their annual STD screenings at their Gyn appointment, and thus think that they’re certifiably herpes-free), and my guess is that most people who know they have HSV-2 are not going to reveal it to a one-night stand partner. Not that this is directly relevant to the ethical issue UT is grappling with (certainly I agree that the ideal thing to do is to reveal any known disease), but I would just warn anyone that making decisions about the risks of sex based on a prospective partner’s purported STD status is extremely risky; you should assume they have everything, do what you can to protect yourself, and hope for the best. Obviously it’s different when you’ve gotten to know someone well and can insist they get a thorough STD screening (and trust the results they report to you).

Quote
That’s true. But how would you feel if YOU were on the receiving end? No doubt YOU would change your opinion and bitch, whinge and complain about how you were hard done by.

If we’re talking a one-night stand, I would be neither surprised nor outraged. When I have sex with someone, I assume that I’m taking a risk of catching viruses from them (e.g., HPV or HSV), which they may or may not know they have, just as I am at risk of catching viruses (e.g., rhinovirus or influenza) when kissing someone, whether they know they have a cold or flu or not. If there are any outward signs of an infection (e.g., cold sores, or coughing and sneezing), I’ll stay away completely.

You hit the nail on the head Para.

I too have tested negative for many STI’s, including HSV-1 and 2 and I always assume that anyone new I have sex with has an infection. A condom will not protect you all that much when it comes to HSV and HPV. It’s just a risk that I accept. I don’t expect people to tell me they have something and I don’t even expect people to know they have something. I just protect myself as I see fit and I get tested as necessary and treated if warranted. It’s my guess that most women do not tell their partners that their pap smears showed the presence of HPV. And oral herpes can be spread to the genitals and vice versa. Would I tell someone if I did have herpes? Depends who it is.


Start: 8"BPEL 5.9" girth Current: 8.5"BPEL 6.5" girth Goal: 9"NBPEL 6.7" girth

To all of those who continue to say “If you have any chance of hurting someone you need to tell them.”

Para made my point stronger than I think I will be able to when he said “Should I tell someone I have HIV and that they should catch it when playing in a basketball game” He said no, and I agree because the right to privacy outweighs the 1/500,000 or more risk that someone has of catching HIV that day.

Now some people threw out some arbitrary numbers such as 1/100 and said “Even if it was that low, you should still inform them”. Of course whoever said this is not looking at the big picture, the question ultimately comes down to, “At what point do the odds of giving someone an std become so low that it is actually more uncomfortable for the both of you to even discuss it during a one night stand.” At 1/100 you may have an argument with me, but for herpes I am still saying it might even need to be slightly higher. That’s my opinion, but I have no clue where so many people get off saying “Odds do not matter in this situation.”

Odds matter in every situation.

When I get on a plane, they don’t speak over the loud speaker and tell me it’s possible we could crash this evening. There are a couple reasons for this. I, like everyone else on the plane know that we could crash, just like everyone else should know that it’s “possible” to get an std from anyone, even a virgin. Next, for some obsessive fearful people it could ruin the flight just by having them think about it, and it may ruin future experiences. (For some fearful girl or guy the night would very likely be ruined over something they are 75 times more likely to have and not know about it than they are retracting it at the scene.)

Ohhh and for all of you that say “You have to warn someone before you hurt them” I am putting my money down on 1/5-1/10 odds that getting herpes “Makes her life better” yes I said it. Many women who sleep around are shallow, and afraid to enter a relationship because of fear of getting hurt, the first time a guy accepts her for who she is, herpes and all and still loves her could literally create a quantum leap in her life.

If I was to play devils advocate for a second, I would look at those who support this viewpoint, and think well there is really no way out. Odds do matter, because there is a possibility of a fucking meteorite landing on my house tomorrow, it’s like 1/ five quadrillion, but we would all agree it would be ridiculous if NASA sent out an immediate release and CNN Broadcasted it.

So, then it all comes down to, where do we draw the line with the odds?

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