Need help from the older guys.

HCG for male HRT is so far off ‘scrip that it is unlikely to get researched stateside for a while.

It also seems to have a following in the obesity community— apparently it can help drop pounds fast.

Someone sent me some info on it a while back [in line of my fitness business]— I’ll have to see if I can locate it.

According to my doctor, 1500IU is waaaaaay too much to inject per day. I take 250IU on the two consecutive days preceding my injection of testosterone. I’m following Dr. Crisler’s HCG protocol, which calls for no more than 500IU of HCG. Here’s a quote from his current protocol. I’ll post a link to the entire document after the quote:

"It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition."
All Things Male - Center for Men’s Health

It would make sense for you to also read his thoughts on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT): TRT: A Recipe for Success All Things Male - Center for Men’s Health

Damiana is an herb. I’m sure a search would show lots of hits on this site. I read that it’s supposed to help increase testicle size, so without my wife knowing about it, I started taking it. A week or so later, she was about to make me a happy man with he mouth when she looked at my boys and said, "your balls are getting bigger!" I had thought they were, too, but am aware enough that it could have been wishful thinking.

Some guys are concerned about how it works and what else it does. I haven’t noticed any other side effects, but I’m the opposite of Marky777 - I’m not at all sensitive to stuff like this and rarely notice anything much.

The brand I bought was from Amazon, Vitamin Shoppe brand. I’m sure you can find it at a decent vitamin/herb store. Smaller stores should be able to special order it - it’s very inexpensive.

If the info you have on it concerns taking it for weight loss, I’d love to read it. I’ve heard that it’s bogus, doesn’t help with weight loss at all, and the downside to the rumors that it does help with weight loss have caused a huge shortage and higher prices, which sucks for guys like me that are taking it for non-weightloss reasons.

Doing a quick search on Pubmed, I found this:

Aznar Aznar A, López García-Viedma A, Gómez Vilanova C, Prieto Santos A, Roel Valdés J, Pérez Piqueras JL, Sánchez García G.

Servicio de Cirugía Infantil, Hospital Militar Gómez Ulla, Madrid.

Medical treatment with FSH and HCG was tested during 21 days in 47 cases (76 testis) of undescended testis. The average testis size, as measured by ecography, increased from 0.828 cc to 1.57 cc 48 hours after completing the treatment. Three months later the average testis size was 1.025 cc and 1.24 cc at six months. FSH increased slightly and total testosterone and free testosterone increased significantly. After treatment, 68% of the previously undescended testis descended.

PMID: 1362337 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1362337?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.P ubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_MultiItemSupl.Pub med_TitleSearch&linkpos=2&log$=pmtitlesearch4

I haven’t done any other searching and don’t have time right now. I can tell you that on the hypogonadism2 yahoo group, HCG is discussed frequently, and it’s well established that guys on testosterone should also be on HCG. Most guys report larger ball size, more ejaculate volume, higher libido, and overall an increased sense of well-being. They enjoy life more.

Dr. Crisler says that the wives and girlfriends of the guys on HCG are very pleased with the results.

I have a big bag of it coming. Will let you know what effect it has.

I wonder if Damiana is banned by the IOC.:-k

Hi Jimbeau and others,

I know there’s not much on the web on hCG and that’s why I threw a question in here to see what others were doing.

OK. I don’t know about that other than what I just read. What I do know are my own experiences:

1. I first went onto HRT way back in September 2003, but didn’t get onto testosterone (TT) until February 2004 – then, only at very low doses. Despite my comments below, I reckon it is the best thing I’ve done in recent years, followed by foreskin restoration.

2. My doctor took and continues to take blood tests every three months to see what was/is happening.

3. The levels of HRT really didn’t start getting serious for about 2 years – he increased doses very slowly, watching the blood tests very closely. If anyone’s interested, I have all test results from the start on an Excel Spreadsheet and am happy to send it if I can do that through a PM? My wife does periodically see my email and I really don’t want her to know I visit Thunders Place. She would not understand and give me all sorts of grief.

4. The last four blood tests showed for Total TT a range of 34.6 to 41.8 nmol/L and for Free TT a range of 84.6 to 132.2 pmol/L. The “normal” ranges are 12 to 26 and 34.5 to 98, respectively). Maybe my current levels of Total TT and Free TT are a bit too high. However, I’m showing no symptoms of TT abuse, unless shrunken balls are one.

5. What I also know is that if I lower my TT intake, I feel the effect instantly – like crap.

5. I did not measure my balls at the start, so I have no real, objective sense of comparison. However, I reckon they were quite a lot bigger before – comparing myself to others in the locker room (also, have a look at http://www.thevisualiser.net/ ). I was not “well-endowed” before on the balls front, but I was up there with most of them. Now, I reckon they’re decidedly small, measuring only 5 and 5.5 cm, left and right, respectively. I did this by squeezing each one gently through the scrotum and measuring along the longest dimension. This is the first time I’ve measured them.

6. I don’t think they are as firm as they used to be either, but really don’t know.

7. Because I felt they were getting smaller and softer (almost mushy) and information I got from one website (), I convinced my doctor to let me go onto hCG. I reckon I have some idea now what women feel when they lose part or all of a breast.

8. I started taking 500 iu hCG three days per week in May 2007. Because I wasn’t happy with the results (nothing happened), the doctor allowed me to increase that, slowly over the forthcoming months, getting to my current level of 1,500 iu every three days in June 2009.

9. The higher levels have helped, but I still feel my balls are much smaller than they should be. Even when I’m hot, they do not have enough weight to move away from my body. I look like I’m cold always.

What do you reckon guys? I will give Damiana a go when I return to Oz in mid January — unless someone here says don’t.

Rick, I think if I were you I’d head over to - this is a site just for guys who have hypogonadism (low testosterone) or a related disease like Klienfelter’s syndrome. If you’re getting supplemental testosterone, want to have your labs looked at, need advice on HCG or an anti-estrogen medication, or any other facet of dealing with having low testosterone, that’s the place to go. It’s much more likely that you’ll get good advice from that group of guys than you will from this site, just because of the target audience. Many of the guys there are on HCG - probably MOST of the guys are.

That being said, I understand how you feel. One of my many ex-wives (I have two) told me early on that I had small balls for a guy. I’d never heard that before and wasn’t aware of it - ball size isn’t exactly something that you can compare easily. Dr. Crisler has a string of ball-shaped beads that range from very small to very large, and according to him my balls are average size, but I suspect they’re on the small side of average. Being on testosterone shrunk them even further until I started being treated by Dr. Crisler (before then it was an endocrinologist who was more concerned with my sperm count than my quality of life). HCG brought my balls back to normal - at least, normal for me. Damiana has helped them grow a tad bit more, and they feel fuller, but it’s not a huge difference. Some guys are blessed with big balls; I’m blessed with large girth (6.5”, give or take) but small balls. In addition, my balls do not hang low at all - like you, most of the time they are pretty tight against my body, but unlike you, when I get warm they do go a bit lower. I’m trying various techniques to be more of a “low hanger” including the ballzinger and some metal spacer rings that I wear on my scrotum, and occasionally a parachute stretcher - which is a leather device worn on the scrotum that you attach light weights to. Testicular damage is something I’m very wary of, and with your balls in particular you need to go very very slowly. I anticipate it will take years before I see much difference. I’d love to be able to feel them slapping up against my wife when I go hard and fast, the way she likes it.

All that being said, you, like me, may never have large or even normal size balls. Fortunately it’s mainly an aesthetic problem, since my hormones are pretty tuned up and I have a decent libido.

Your HCG levels seem very high to me - did you check out the link I posted to what Dr. Crisler has to say about HCG? It’s worth the read. In addition, you would be doing yourself a favor to head over the yahoo group, look around, do some searches, and then post your questions there. It’s a great group of guys - pmgamer in particular is very helpful, although his recent medical problems have made a noticeable difference.