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Low testosterone.

Hopefully, the tests will help you get to the bottom of things so you can get back to feeling normal.

Originally Posted by gunnagetthere
I’m hoping someone here can give me some advice.
In thirteen days I have a doctors appointment; I never go to the doctor. I’m almost positive I’m suffering from low testosterone. I have all the symptoms; low sex drive, ED, no energy, and general lack of wellbeing.
After reading up on the subject I found that the normal range for T is around 300 to 1000. From what I’ve read, just because someone is above 300 does not mean they don’t need treatment for low T. I am terrified that the doctor I’m going to see is going to be one of the many who’s not real familiar with treating low T symptoms, and try treating me with Viagra and anti-depressants.
Something has to give, because I can go on like this. I have a great life, but I’m letting it slip away. I have a gorgeous wife, but I’m neglecting her needs because I can’t perform.
I’m 30 years old, 6’8” and 250lbs, but I feel like I’m 70!
I don’t want to come at the doctor like I know it all, but there is little doubt in my mind that it’s low T.
So my question is how do I discuss this with him?
Hopefully he’s knowledgeable in the area and all my worry is for nothing.
Sorry for the long thread, I just don’t really have anyone to talk to about this.

Thank you!

Do a saliva test, buy the kit online then send to lab. Then you know. Read up on hormone optimisation. Get vitamins, fish oil, magnesium and lots of protein in your diet. Lift heavy weights 2-4 times a week. Sprint every so often. Get your sleep.

Low testosterone

Blah, blah, blah, buy my useless shit and it will make you walk on water.

:spam:

Originally Posted by The Eggs
I don’t know anything when it comes to medically treating low testosterone, but I’m a firm believer in naturally increasing testosterone with some simple changes to your diet and overall lifestyle.

Do the following before considering any drugs, “herbs”, or generic testosterone boosters:

*AVOID SOY AND ALL OF ITS KIND AT ALL COSTS* (this is a HUGE one)
Eat more animal fat/saturated fat
Have more Zinc
Eat more broccoli and spinach
Lift HEAVY weights regularly
Do short, intense sprints once in a while (HIIT)
Get more sleep (naps are included)
Eat more in general if you’re eating little (low calorie diets decrease testosterone)
Take cold showers
Take L-Arginine (get the powdered form from NOW Foods on Amazon)

Try these and see what happens before considering medicine, injections, and so on.

I have no doubt those suggestions will help you.

Great advice.

Hard work, but great advice.

As a powerlifter and competitive soccer player I know what these things can do, but the most important part is rest. Without rest mot everything else becomes impossible over time.

I play soccer three times a week and life HEAVY weights in cycles, and train with macebells and kettlebells and really watch for the soy in my diet.

I’m not sure about the cold showers though.


Began December 2009 at 5 7/8" length and 5" girth.

As of December 5th 2012 7 3/8" BPEL and 6 1/8" base girth.

Going for the magic 8"x6"

Well gentlemen,

Today I had my follow up and discussed my lab results with the doc.

He said my total T was 520. The lab did not give him any free T measures. I guess the lab now requires the sample to be frozen for the free T.

He said that a total T of 520 is in the normal range and he believes that it is most likely a matter of depression.

Problem is, I know I’m not depressed. Why would I be? My life is great!

He said that sometimes people are depressed and don’t even know it because it only manifest its self in physical symptoms.

So just what I was afraid would happened did. He prescribed me a anti-depressant and cialis.

Well a least maybe I will be a really happy guy with a raging hard on.

Anyone with any input please feel free to post your advice. Is 520 for total T normal?

Thank you in advance!

I have been on trt for 2 years now. I can assure you that most doctors will not prescribe you test when your natural levels are over 500. My symptoms started at 26 yrs old. I told the doc I was feeling unusually tired and he ordered blood. My levels came back at 190. I told him I didn’t want to be on test for life just yet. So I tried all that natural stuff (lifting weights, high protein, and calories). My levels went back up to 400 for a while, but I just couldn’t keep the routine up constantly. Any way, when I turned 30 my blood test came back at 90. That’s when I gave up and I’m glad I did. Now, my free test stays up near 1000 and I feel absolutely great. If your looking to get on test there are clinics all over the place now. Just remember that it’s a life long decision.

520 is normal by the way. If you were to lift weights and eat right you could probably raise it by a few hundred points.

Originally Posted by The Eggs
I don’t know anything when it comes to medically treating low testosterone, but I’m a firm believer in naturally increasing testosterone with some simple changes to your diet and overall lifestyle.

Do the following before considering any drugs, “herbs”, or generic testosterone boosters:

*AVOID SOY AND ALL OF ITS KIND AT ALL COSTS* (this is a HUGE one)
Eat more animal fat/saturated fat
Have more Zinc
Eat more broccoli and spinach
Lift HEAVY weights regularly
Do short, intense sprints once in a while (HIIT)
Get more sleep (naps are included)
Eat more in general if you’re eating little (low calorie diets decrease testosterone)
Take cold showers
Take L-Arginine (get the powdered form from NOW Foods on Amazon)

Try these and see what happens before considering medicine, injections, and so on.

I have no doubt those suggestions will help you.

This is excellent advice. Exercise is a huge contributor to testosterone production. What is especially helpful is doing strenuous leg workouts due to their anatomically large muscle size.

Originally Posted by gunnagetthere
Anyone with any input please feel free to post your advice. Is 520 for total T normal?

Thank you in advance!

At your age, it could be higher (600-700 is average I think), but it certainly is not very low and I would exhaust every other option first.

It is not enough to make a diagnosis on total testosterone alone. What really matters is free testosterone, i.e., what is available to your body. Testosterone binds to SHBG, so if that hormone is elevated, you may have very low levels of free testosterone. With a total testosterone of 520, you can have more free testosterone than a guy with 700, assuming your SHBG is low and his is high.

Another important hormone is estradiol. If this is elevated or deflated, it will affect your well-being.

Then we have LH and FSH hormone. These are produced in your pituitary. If these are low, it indicates a problem in the pituitary and your testicles may not receive the necessary signals to produce enough testosterone. If so, you are candidate for clomiphene or HCG monotherapy. This is a therapy that stimulates the endogenous pathway, instead of injecting exogenous testosterone. Obviously to prefer if you are secondary and it works for you.

Beyond testosterone, there are a multiple of other conditions that could explain your symptoms. Did you get a thyroid panel, iron panel, vitamins and cortisol? Excessive cortisol output can explain it, sub-optimal thyroid function or iron overload (or deficiency) and many other things that I don`t even know.

Vitamin D is a very important vitamin for optimal endocrine health and many subjects with your issues have low levels of this important vitamin. The same with zinc.

There are natural herbs that are very promising in boosting your testosterone. I had a great subjective relief on Tongkat Ali, so I would definitely recommend that one. I did not have too much success with the other herbs (Maca, Ginkgo Biloba, etc), but others have had very good results.

Finally, you do not mention anything about lifestyle. Do you eat healthy? Enough fats? Calorie deficit or surplus? Do you have a low stress lifestyle? Do you sleep well and follow the circadian rhythm? Do you exercise? Do you get enough exposure to sun light?

If not, all these things WILL put you in a good range, since you are quite normal already (looking only at total T). TRT is a last resort if nothing else works.

I would recommend you to try the Cialis as well, especially since there are studies indicating that it may increase testosterone. Look for the other thread in this forum where I posted an abstract from a study.

If you try all this and still do not feel an improvement, then I would possibly look into TRT, but only as a last resort.

Good luck!

Renholder

Any stay off the anti-depressants. :)

Originally Posted by Renholder
At your age, it could be higher (600-700 is average I think), but it certainly is not very low and I would exhaust every other option first.

Another important hormone is estradiol. If this is elevated or deflated, it will affect your well-being.

Then we have LH and FSH hormone. These are produced in your pituitary. If these are low, it indicates a problem in the pituitary and your testicles may not receive the necessary signals to produce enough testosterone. If so, you are candidate for clomiphene or HCG monotherapy. This is a therapy that stimulates the endogenous pathway, instead of injecting exogenous testosterone. Obviously to prefer if you are secondary and it works for you.

Beyond testosterone, there are a multiple of other conditions that could explain your symptoms. Did you get a thyroid panel, iron panel, vitamins and cortisol? Excessive cortisol output can explain it, sub-optimal thyroid function or iron overload (or deficiency) and many other things that I don`t even know.

Vitamin D is a very important vitamin for optimal endocrine health and many subjects with your issues have low levels of this important vitamin. The same with zinc.

If not, all these things WILL put you in a good range, since you are quite normal already (looking only at total T). TRT is a last resort if nothing else works.

If you try all this and still do not feel an improvement, then I would possibly look into TRT, but only as a last resort.

Good luck!

Renholder

Spot on Renholder.
I had low T of 320. Mine was a no brainer since I had testicular cancer and my last nut couldn’t produce enough T. I am on TRT. My total T is now 900+. This sounds good, but my vitamin D and iron were both very low. In general I felt like crap. It wasn’t until I raised these levels that I started to feel better.

In the beginning of my TRT my E2 was 4. My joints were really aching me. Once I broke through the 800 level of TT did my E2 come up to 24 +/-. My chemistry is now changing again. My E2 last checked was 72. I’m now on arimidex to get the E2 back in range. Keeping E2 in an optimum range for a lot of guys is a frustrating dilemma.

I have very low cortisol output, so I have to watch this very closely on a daily, sometimes hourly basis.

In short, T level is just one piece of the puzzle. A man’s entire hormonal profile must be taken into consideration by a COMPETENT doctor.


Starting stats 3/2/12: BPEL 5.625, EG 5.375, Flaccid L 3.50, Flaccid G 5.125, Mild to moderate ED

Goals: It's growing and looking good. ED is slightly better. 4/30

If you do get in to antidepressant tell him to prescribe wellbutrin xl , I had good experience as far as libido with wellbutrin xl unlike Zoloft that gave me low libido .


Current 8 bpel /7.25 nbp 6.25 eg .

Goal , I be happy with 8 NBP so I can relocate her kidney.

If you really don’t feel depressed, I’d stay far away as possible from anti-depressants.

What Renholder said!

Given the really broad “normal” range for total testosterone, it true than you’re in the normal range, but it’s difficult to say what’s normal for you.

I think folks are right that very few doctors are going to put you on testosterone replacement therapy when total T is in that range - especially when there’s no lab data on free T, or other hormones that help provide a better picture of what might be going on.

I think doctors tend to pull depression diagnoses out their asses whenever they are unable (or too lazy) to figure out what is going on. It makes me crazy (but not depressed) how they want to stick with objective scientific evidence treating most conditions - which is sometimes a problem if your condition deviates from those for which there is solid data - and yet they are so quick to throw around psychiatric labels and prescribe powerful meds, based on a bogus diagnosis of exclusion. (“Patient doesn’t respond to the bag of tricks I know, so the problem must be mental.”) Its often about as professional as the Macy’s psychologist in Miracle on 34th Street!

Originally Posted by gunnagetthere
I am terrified that the doctor I’m going to see is going to be one of the many who’s not real familiar with treating low T symptoms, and try treating me with Viagra and anti-depressants.

Here is concrete advice: buy a physical copy of this book: Testosterone for Life: Recharge Your Vitality, Sex Drive, Muscle Mass, and Overall Health by Abraham Morgentaler.

Then, highlight the paragraphs where this Harvard doctor — recognized as an expert in the field — indicates the ranges of testosterone, both free and total, that are considered “low”. Demand to be tested for both free and total, and if you fall within the ranges suggested in the book, or even just close, insist that you be treated for low testosterone.

That aside, I would try to see a doctor who specialized in male sexual health, or hormones. And I would use google to home in on the right guy in your area before even making an appointment. But since you already have the appointment, I would at least go in with some storng ammunition in the form of the book I mentioned.


My Before and After pics -- .5" gain...

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