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Nemanja,

Originally Posted by mgus
Seriously, I do hope it can be of help. I just don’t want you - or someone else - to say “hey, a miracle drug, the solution to all my problems!” It might be of use, it might not. As I said, if I ever get depressed again, I wouldn’t hesitate a second. But it is a mind-altering drug, and should be treated with due respect.


Yep, Paxil (SSRI’s) is linked to addiction - and even suicide. See what I was trying to say earlier?

The last link concerns mostly teens and children. One could well argue that depression during adolescent years is difficult to diagnose (not the depression, but the cause - social pressures, genetics, burnout?). I only looked at the last link:

Quote
I can’t change my past decisions, or those of my doctors, but armed with the accumulated knowledge about Paxil that I’ve had to seek out on my own, I am fighting it head-on. GSK claims that a tapering down to 20mgs a day and then nothing is the way to stop the drug. Well, my dose has only ever been 20 mgs. So, judging from my sensitivity to stopping it, I have taken an almost ridiculously slow approach to ending my dependence. With the help of a pill slicer, I have shaved off one eighth of a pill every two to three weeks.

Today, I’m on half the dose I was before - and the withdrawal effects, to date, have been manageable. The greatest help in dealing with them, though, has been the ability to recognize that what I thought was my so-called ‘chemical imbalance’ is simply a temporary withdrawal reaction. Something that, had there been more transparency in the drug policy sector, I would have known as a 22-year-old.

Note that she talks of withdrawal symptoms - from reading her entire article, I didn’t see anything else about addictive qualities other than the withdrawal symptoms - and I can’t see that they seem all that drastic, at least not worse that what I experienced. I knew I was in for withdrawal symptoms - I recall recklessness, short of breath, dizzyness, sweating, changes in sleep, anger and so on - but my biggest fear was not the withdrawal symptoms, it was that I’d go back to being depressed again (which I didn’t). To be perfectly honest, she sounds a little naive - when you take off a cast after a broken arm, it will hurt and you need to do a fair amount of training to get full function in your now-weakened muscles. The arm isn’t as good as new once you take off the cast.

But as I said, it is a mindaltering drug, and should be treated with due respect.

King,

I am not taking any SSRI’s - I took Seroxat for ~8 months and then during my second depression I took Efexor for about 12 months. I’ve been off Efexor since last easter, approximately. I think I took the standard dose of Seroxat, maybe a double. For Efexor I took the standard dose of 75 mg and went up to 150 mg for a while, but noticed no difference between the two. I don’t worry about “liking” it too much - if the consequence of taking a drug would be to upgrade me, from mgus 1.0 to mgus 2.0, I’d see no reason to back off it. But I took it to cure my depression, and I had no intention of taking it for any other reason - didn’t even know you could, at the time.

Now I’m only taking Omega3 (fish oil) - but a fair amount of it.

Leatherface,

My depressions were of different types, and so comparison is a bit different. I had shitloads of anxiety the second time around (although I don’t think it showed that much outwards), the first time it was more a total lack of energy. Either one could say that Seroxat took me back to normal and then beyond some - or it just took me back to normal, and my pent-up needs for going overboard were released since I suddenly was single and working away from home (= lot’s of opportunity to be “different”). Or one could say that Efexor just plain normalized me - or maybe since the outer situation (pressures, demands) didn’t change at the same time as the previous time, and if it had changed I would have gone beyond what I was again. I really don’t know.

What I do know is that my brain functions more sharply now than it did during or after either of those two periods. This I attribute to Omega3 (see the link to Lipidworld.com that I pasted in post #50-something of “The Depression Workshop” for a rundown on how and why Omega3 works for depression).


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Originally Posted by Leatherface
King G

Where do you buy a liquid Seroxat? Is that something only found in Europe?

Any pharmacy in the UK. But you can only get it on prescription. In the US you’d be looking for Liquid Paxil.


Cheers, G Started at 6 x 4.5 - Jan 05 Current 7.1 x 5.1 Goal 8 x 6

Originally Posted by Nemanja
King_G and mgus,

at first, I enjoyed your conversation and became more willing and eager to try this drug. Then I read this
Then I did some of my own searching and found this: http://www.counterpunch.org/giombetti0912.html and this: http://www.quitpaxil.org/Main/symptoms.htm and this: http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/09/18a.php and finally this: http://thetyee.ca/Life/2004/10/19/PaxilNightmare1/ I became scared. Very scared. Strongly suggest that you read these texts.
Now I have no intention of beginning to take Seroxat any time soon.

Nemanja, I understand your concern. The seroxat comes with the standard leaflet describing side effects, it also includes a list of possible withdrawal symptoms, which I did read before taking my first dose. My Dr said it was not addictive as such, but you did have to wean off slowly to avoid withdrawal symptoms.
The drug is a strong drug, I experienced a few small side effects when I started taking Seroxat and I full expect to experience a few withdrawal effects when I stop taking it.

There is a big difference between us and most Seroxat users, and that is that we are taking very very small doses. Most Seroxat users are being treated for depression and they take 20-40mg per day. I’m taking only 10mg. So I think weaning off will be ok. I’ll let you know in a couple of months when I do it.


Cheers, G Started at 6 x 4.5 - Jan 05 Current 7.1 x 5.1 Goal 8 x 6

Originally Posted by iwillbbigger
UPDATE:

Ive been taking Zoloft 50mg a day for about a week now. After 3 days of taking it, I was able to go a little longer and I was much more relaxed than before. But I’m waiting till after i take it 3weeks for this is a reasonable amount of time to see if there will be any significant changes. As far as the side effects are concerned, I have been drowsy and have dry mouth. I try to remedy this by drinking plenty of water and getting some sleep. I will keep everyone updated weekly on my progress.

Feeling a bit drowsy in the evening is one of the side effects that I had. I started going to bed a an hour earlier. After a couple of weeks I stopped feeling drowsy in the evenings.


Cheers, G Started at 6 x 4.5 - Jan 05 Current 7.1 x 5.1 Goal 8 x 6

Originally Posted by mgus
King,

I am not taking any SSRI’s - I took Seroxat for ~8 months and then during my second depression I took Efexor for about 12 months. I’ve been off Efexor since last easter, approximately. I think I took the standard dose of Seroxat, maybe a double. For Efexor I took the standard dose of 75 mg and went up to 150 mg for a while, but noticed no difference between the two. I don’t worry about “liking” it too much - if the consequence of taking a drug would be to upgrade me, from mgus 1.0 to mgus 2.0, I’d see no reason to back off it. But I took it to cure my depression, and I had no intention of taking it for any other reason - didn’t even know you could, at the time.

Now I’m only taking Omega3 (fish oil) - but a fair amount of it.

I had tried Omega 3 and found that I felt sharper and more mentally alert before starting Seroxat. I think I will start taking Omega 3 as I come off Seroxat. I think it may help.

What dose of Seroxat were you taking per day?


Cheers, G Started at 6 x 4.5 - Jan 05 Current 7.1 x 5.1 Goal 8 x 6

I don’t remember - the standard dose for depression, whatever that is. I’m not sure if I went up to a higher dose for a while or not.


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

General Update.
The Seroxat is going very well. Side effects nearly all gone now. See previous posts for other aspects of life that have improved with Seroxat.
With regard to Prem Ejac, it would seem that for the 10 mg per day which I’ve been on for over a month only missing the dose once or twice in the month. The prem ejac is much better than before I started but not as good as I thought it might get.
I am not lasting as long as I did about 1 month after taking it.
I haven’t been using a stopwatch but I would say;
Day 8 - Had sex and lasted 3 mins.
Day 10 - Had sex and lasted 4 mins.
Day 12 - Had sex and lasted 6 mins.
Day 14 - Had sex lasted 10 mins.
Day 16 - Had sex lasted 15 mins.
Day 18 - Masturbated and took 15 mins to cum. I almost gave up several times.
Day 21 - Shagged fast and hard from the outset, for at least 20 mins. I had to focus as hard as I could to cum.

I then reduced the dose to 5mg per day, but lower dose wasn’t effective, so went back up to 10mg.
Sex drive started going down, so I could finally bear not to have sex for more than 2 days. I still have sex at every opportunity but I don’t neeeeeeed it anymore, which is great. I used to get quite angry and moody if I wasn’t getting sex every 2-3 days.

after 2.5 months I’m lasting about 10-15 mins. Can last longer if I go slower and can’t last as long if I go too fast.
So the effect seems to be less powerful over time, but has leveled off at a much better place than where I started. So I’m more than happy.
Other reasons I’m not lasting as long now as I was after 21 days are:-
Since we’ve cut down the frequency of sex, my wife’s sex drive has kicked in. We only have sex when she asks for it (a little experiment I’m trying). Since then she has been horny as hell in bed. Really going for it and shagging me back like crazy. The sex is fiery and passionate where as she used to lay there like roadkill. The fact she is enjoying the sex so much and we’re having sex less frequently, has got to be a factor in me not lasting so long as I was after 21 days. Now she also does things in bed that she said she would never do and hated. Sex has gotten a 100 times better over the last 2 months, than it had over the last 6 years.

Less sex really has been more sex in my case!!! If you’re wife seems to hate sex, Try cutting down to just when she wants it! Although you may need drugs to stem your sex drive. I could never have done it without Seroxat. I would have become a raging angry moody twat.

Now she wants to have sex several times in a row, when she never wanted to do that before. She lets me finger-fuck her pussy and play with her clit, never before done, I even gave her a short bout of oral sex, which was a major milestone in the sexual relationship. She let me cum in her mouth, never before done. She isn’t doing all these things every time we have sex, but at least they’ve now happened! I can’t beleive what a massive change has come about, thru cutting down the sex to ‘just when she wants it’.
Other interesting side effects of Seroxat…
My refractory period is much shorter now. I can have sex and then be ready to go again after a 2 minute rest.


Cheers, G Started at 6 x 4.5 - Jan 05 Current 7.1 x 5.1 Goal 8 x 6

Originally Posted by King_G
Other interesting side effects of Seroxat…
My refractory period is much shorter now. I can have sex and then be ready to go again after a 2 minute rest.


That’s right - I recall now. I could have sex, orgasm and just wait until the hypersensitivity of the glans subsided and then continue, without ever loosing my hardon. I remember once I was going for a third time, and kind of gave up on it, realizing it would take too long for my partner to take it.

I never had any of these effects with Efexor, only with Seroxat (Paxil).


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

I think that one should take the time and read those horrifying testimonies. And it doesn’t seem to me that 10 mg per day is a very small dose. The leaflet in the drug box says (at least the leaflet printed by the manufacturer for the market here in Bosnia) that the regular dose is 2o mg, and that it can be increased up to 50 mg a day. If the regular dose is 20 mg, then 10 mg doesn’t seem like a tiny dose…

If you read the testimonies of addicts, you’ll see that those who succeeded in quitting Paxil/Seroxat had to lower their dose and even take 5 mg for a while. Now, if 5 mg made a substantial difference, then 10 mg are definitely not very little…

It would be great if this drug was a cure for premature ejaculation, but so far I haven’t seen one single testimony by a person who used Paxil, then quitted it, and continued to enjoy the benefits of delayed ejaculation. All articles about Paxil benefits in fight against premature ejac. were results of test studies, where conclusions were made after a few weeks or months of Paxil usage by patients. We do not know what happened later. But by what we have heard so far, we can pretty safely assume that the effects disappear when you quit the drug and that the drug is very addictive.

Nemanja,

You crack me up. First you try to make my posts make out that Seroxat is the solution in spite of all my warnings, then you read those testimonies and turn around 180 degrees.

I didn’t bother reading all the testimonies, I only read the last of the links. But that young lady described withdrawal symptoms - and I make a difference between addictive (because that calls for constantly higher doses with diminishing returns) and withdrawal symptoms (because they are unwanted but present during the time it takes for people to get their signal systems readjusted). Remember that the helpgroups or whatever that have members who can’t face the withdrawals symptoms are not the norm and we don’t really know what percentage of the users that can’t get off the Seroxat - it could be crying wolf. We don’t know either if those that can’t wean themselves off the drug are “weak” i.e. can’t bear to face the queaziness and yuck of severe withdrawal symptoms or if they aren’t wimps and still just plain can’t do it. I’m a bit wary of alarmists and super-positives alike.

But yes, as I said in my first posts in this thread, it probably wont last once you quit the drug.


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Glad to entertain you, mgus.

And I don’t think that we can have a serious discussion on this subject as long as you begin answering my posts with:

Quote
I didn’t bother reading all the testimonies

I didn’t read them all because I felt I pretty much knew what was coming. The last link was from 2004, so I figured it was all old hat

OK, link 1 (from 2002).
Here is a September 8 posting by Kim titled, “This Is Terrible”: Hi, everyone. I am going through a terrible withdrawal. I went from 30mg to 20 to 10 to 5 and now I am completely off Paxil. But it is not completely out of me. I have been off Paxil now for a week now and everyday is a struggle. Mood swings, dizzy spells, severe muscle aches, shocks throughout my head and body when I move my eyes. I feel like I am going crazy. I can't think straight and my animals are being neglected. I would have NEVER taken this if I knew this would happen. I was Prozac years ago and had no problems coming off. I can't wait to get this out of my body and clear my head. Here's a testimonial you won't be seeing in any Paxil ad from Rina in Toronto posted August 5: Taking Paxil since 1995 and I am now 330 lbs. I take 40 mg daily. Any advise on how to get this out of my life? Weight gain is a commonly reported side effect of these drugs.

So Kim has problems after a week - the average time to even notice any improvement is two weeks; why wouldn’t one notice withdrawal symptoms for at least a week? Naive. Rina gains weight - not unexpected - and we have no idea of what she has done or not done, if she is rid of her underlying depression or not - this is inconclusive.

Next Trisha Spinelli says she goes on in July 1997, tries to quit in September, can’t and gradually weans herself off by December. Then she has problems with memory loss, cognitive functions etc. Sounds very disturbing, she had long term problems from withdrawal. No info of the severity of her anxiety etc problems that caused her to take the drug in the first place - depression itself will cause the very same problems she attributes to Paxil.

The main thing about link 1 is that GSK claimed there were no sideeffects - I’ve warned you from the very start that there are, as will every doctor I’ve heard of.

Link 2 - from Quitpaxil: No shit, this is what I warned you about from the very start.

A blatant inconsistency though - under “frequently reported sideeffects” they have listed “Suicidal thoughts (in extreme cases). If it is in extreme cases, then it is not frequent.

Link 3 - about a lawsuit against GSK. I am very suspicious of American lawsuits. I place no trust whatsoever in them. Show me real investigations about how many or how difficult it is, that is studies made by Uni’s or someone who doesn’t have a direct economic incentive in showing this or that.

Link 4 - My Paxil nightmare, dated 2004. I already adressed this above.

Nemanja, I warned you about this from the very start. You didn’t want to take it in. Can I say “I told you so”?


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains


Last edited by mgus : 07-14-2006 at .

Originally Posted by mgus

Nemanja, I warned you about this from the very start. You didn’t want to take it in. Can I say “I told you so”?

If it makes you happy to say it, you can. You told me so. The reason why I didn’t listen to you at first was very simple. My experience has always been that people from the West tend to put too much importance on safety warnings, even if the probability of something going bad is one in a million. A few years ago, I watched a lot of German TV, and always thought how it was stupid and hilarious how they always ended their commercials for pharmaceutical products with a warning: “for risks and side effects, read the leaflet in the package and ask your doctor or a pharmacist” (BTW, this is the first time I am translating from one foreign language / German, to another / English). They placed that stupid warning even if the commercial was for something like vitamin C pills, or a no prescription drug used to decrease symptoms of a common cold.

I thought that you were being too careful. And I made a mistake. OK?

Nemanja - are you certain that you aren’t being too careful? Look at who is talking of “lifelong addiction” - mostly laywers. But, as I said, it wasn’t fun going on and certainly not going off. But remember that I took the common dose, you would be looking at less.

(check out my signature for some advice)


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

I do not intend to throw the pills I bought into the garbage. And their expiration date is October 2008. I am not in a relationship now, so I don’t feel pressured to play with this drug in the immediate future. The primary reason why I bought Seroxat in the first place was not to use it immediately, but simply to calm down knowing that I COULD GET this drug if I wanted to. Remember how much I wrote against local urologists. I didn’t expect that I would be able to get any doctor to prescribe Seroxat to me. And I didn’t know that a local pharmacist in my street would be willing to sell it to me without prescription, just because he knows me. I now have this drug in my “arsenal”, if I decide to - I could begin to use it at any time.

The only thing that has changed is that now I no longer think that Seroxat is a good idea. Up until yesterday, I was almost sure it was. Now, I am pretty connvinced that it isn’t. But I am not 100% sure. Let us wait and see how things play out for King_G.

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