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I have been diagnosed with Andropause by 789

Originally Posted by 789

Also, I know I read somewhere you can lower estradiol with some all natural stuff but I don’t remember.

Don’t attempt that on your own until you get an evaluation, then ask the doc if what you want to do on your own is a good idea.

It may be, with your specific andropause, that you are in a good place. I only noticed that the E seemed high.


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avocet8

I went thru my medical records and the only other estradiol test I can find is from a year ago. At that time it was 27 on a scale of 0-54 but my testosterone was only running at 231 on a scale of 240-827. So at that time I was mid range on the E and below normal on the T.

I have some notes on progesterone. What does that do?


You all are still missing the point... The story was great and all but should have ass (and) some anal in it.- RWG

Greetings 789,

And congratulations to you and your docs on the remarkable progress you have made over the last year or so. Having just read the entire thread, a few things come to mind and I quote post #250 as it touches on a possible aspect or contributor:

‘You would think with my free test being so high I would be uncontrollably horny but I’m not. I attribute that to being under an immense amount of stress lately, not sleeping well and the high free test is probably balanced out with a slightly high estradiol level.’

Specifically, the issue is the quality of your sleep (or the lack therof) as it can relate to stress, depression, and a host of possible effects. Question is, have you looked at the age, comfort, support, and overall quality of the mattress you sleep on? As I am currently in the process of replacing a mattress that, in retrospect, has been causing a host of problems for me I thought I’d bring it up. It’s an easy thing to ignore or put off - basically, getting the best mattress possible so as to get really deep, healing sleep is incredibly cost effective as compared to paying out medical costs otherwise.

Maybe its high estradiol but I wonder if there isn’t something else at work. In reading the entire thread, I was struck at the quite rapid onset of your problems - to the point of wondering if you incurred some environmental insult (besides a spider or scorpion bite). For example, false estrogens (xenoestrogens) from paints, plastics, pesticides, and the like can suppress Test as well as raise hell with your immune system. Generally, these build up gradually over time in the fatty tissues of man and beast alike - but the effects of herbicide and/or pesticide poisoning on hormones among other things can be debilitating and quite rapid if the exposure is severe or if there is a chronic, ongoing exposure to something in your immediate environs. Just a thought to ponder. BTW, I don’t want to start a witch hunt because testing for poisoning can really be problematic. But, one just wonders.

Anyway, all the best to you and a lot of thanks to all of the great posts/posters on this thread.

MrTiPS

MrTiPS,

The mattress could be the problem on the sleep thing. The wife and I have had it for maybe 15 years and its time to go but I hate spending $2-3 thousand on another one. We have actually been looking the Sleep Number bed but who knows.

I have to be honest, I am beginning to wonder if the propecia I was taking had anything to do with the other factors. I am a member at a finesteride group and these guys ALL have similar issues as I and are having a helluva time getting back to normal. And these guys are not all fat middle aged men, some are in their twenties just trying to save their hair and now cant get an erection worth a shit. I started taking the propecia about a year before starting TRT. Only time will tell.

Thank you for the post.

789


You all are still missing the point... The story was great and all but should have ass (and) some anal in it.- RWG

Originally Posted by MrTips
Maybe its high estradiol but I wonder if there isn’t something else at work. In reading the entire thread, I was struck at the quite rapid onset of your problems - to the point of wondering if you incurred some environmental insult (besides a spider or scorpion bite). For example, false estrogens (xenoestrogens) from paints, plastics, pesticides, and the like can suppress Test as well as raise hell with your immune system. Generally, these build up gradually over time in the fatty tissues of man and beast alike - but the effects of herbicide and/or pesticide poisoning on hormones among other things can be debilitating and quite rapid if the exposure is severe or if there is a chronic, ongoing exposure to something in your immediate environs. Just a thought to ponder. BTW, I don’t want to start a witch hunt because testing for poisoning can really be problematic. But, one just wonders.


(Sorry for straying off in this tangent 789)

MrTips, do you have any other info to share on the topic of environmental insults (love that term!)?

I’ve read that plastic fillings (in teeth) can leak false estrogens - I’ve an old amalgam (mercury) filling that is giving me troubles, but changing from low-dose mercury poisoning to low-dose estrogen supplements doesn’t really tickle me. I wonder how bad it is / can be.

Apart from the possible link to propecia (I just decided to let nature have it’s course with my hair!), are there any other obvious things to think of?


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Originally Posted by mgus
Apart from the possible link to propecia (I just decided to let nature have it’s course with my hair!), are there any other obvious things to think of?

Well, stress and age come to mind really quickly. I just think its weird that so many guys in the propecia forum have the exact same symptoms/problems. (low libido, ED, weight gain)


You all are still missing the point... The story was great and all but should have ass (and) some anal in it.- RWG

Stress/age of course. I was thinking in terms of outer environmental factors (such as fat-soluble softening chemicals in plastic food containers…) - or propecia.

Maybe you’ve got yourself a future career as whistle-blower?


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Originally Posted by mgus
Stress/age of course. I was thinking in terms of outer environmental factors (such as fat-soluble softening chemicals in plastic food containers…) - or propecia.

Maybe you’ve got yourself a future career as whistle-blower?

There are guys on the propecia forum that want to have the FDA retest the longterm safety of the product.


You all are still missing the point... The story was great and all but should have ass (and) some anal in it.- RWG

Hi MGUS,

Yeah, there are lots of issues but I don’t want to hijack this thread. Let me think about it some and I’ll start a fresh thread. BTW, I had all dental amalgams replaced with ceramic many years ago at the insistence of my eye doctor - I’ll be happy to discuss the details in a separate thread. Same with the other environmental insults issues.

789 - As for the propecia effect on androgens, I understand it has a profound suppressive effect. I recall seeing in print that finasteride can drop DHT as much as 70 percent with extended use. I’m not sure what the exact numbers are for Testosterone. But, if you combine the effects of Propecia with other factors such as 1) aromatase that can convert T into estrogen; 2) synthetic estrogens in the fatty tissues of meat and in milk that might tie up your limited supply of androgen receptors; 3) false estrogens such as pesticides and plasticizers that could do the same; and 4) sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) that binds with and limits the circulation of otherwise potent, free testosterone . . . well - a person just hits the tipping point.

You have done really well on hormone replacement. If some of the things I mention above are in play, then removing them as root causes could shift the paradigm even more to a long term and extremely favorable outcome, in my opinion - especially so if the intercellular hormones, the prostaglandins (PG’s) are also brought into proper balance.

The endocrine system is only part of the story. Diet and exercise have a huge impact on the PG’s. Early in this thread one of the posts (maybe by Blue Nun? - not sure) touched on EFAs (essential fatty acids). The right balance of Omega3 to Omega6 EFAs in our diets has a massive impact, over time, on Prostaglandins. At present, our westernized diets are so Omega6 dominant that PGs can be thrown way out of balance leading to systemic problems that the endocrine system cannot control. You say you fight excess weight - so do I - so do a lot of people. Increased omega3 EFAs can help that as well as naturally drop cholesterol, naturally drop inflammation, naturally thin the blood and lower blood pressure, naturally boost sex drive, and significantly boost the immune system. The most cost-effective source of EFAs I have found is an ultrapure cod liver oil (don’t look at me in that tone of voice - it’s lemon flavored LOL).

Anyway, there is just so damn much stuff as this is such a complex subject but I better post this and push on.

Again, all the Best,

MrTiPS

MrTips,

please do start that other thread. As for prostaglandins, I find that interesting. I take decent amounts of Omega3 (~3000 mg daily) and have had much less problems with my bum knee etc since I started doing this. Notably, some of the favored antiinflammatory medicines are prostaglandin inhibitors, if memory serves me right.

If you read this post ModestoMan - The Penis (smooth) Muscle Theory down to #119 (nobody ever answered my question about prostaglandin inhibitors), there may be reason to consider prostaglandin effects on smooth muscle > effects on gains from PE.

Once again, 789, sorry for the distraction. Hopefully MrTips starts a new thread and you can split this off into that thread.


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Originally Posted by mgus

Once again, 789, sorry for the distraction. Hopefully MrTips starts a new thread and you can split this off into that thread.

No need to apologize mgus at all. He has some very interesting things to say and Ill at least be able to find them since they are in my own thread lol.


You all are still missing the point... The story was great and all but should have ass (and) some anal in it.- RWG

This tread is very interesting to me as I have very similar symptoms. I am 29 and am very tired, skinny and never feel horny, although I will jack off when looking at porn, more habit than anything else! I don’t think I have ever really felt horny, certainly not like I should.

Any way I took a trip to the local doctors and had my blood checked for various things, diabetes, low testosterone, etc. The results were that although in the normal range I was low/normal so have been prescribed androgen patches, which have really not made me feel any better. I am due another visit any day and will get my levels checked again, if they haven’t risen at all should I ask for the injections as this is guarantied to give me a boost even if it does tail off and have a half life?

I live in England and our health care although good isn’t as informed as America’s and this is a difficult subject for me to deal with living in a small town, however I want to be normal especially as I have a lovely girlfriend who is very supportive even with my low drive, and erection difficulties. The doctors blood work didn’t show my free testosterone levels and at the time I was unaware of information to ask, this was several months ago before I found this informative and supportive site. This time I will be sure to ask, although I may have to travel to have my blood more accurately examined. I have also taken a leaf out of 789’s book and am going to keep records of my levels etc as this can only help diagnose my condition!

Several things to consider:

I sometimes get a pressure sensation on the sides of my head (skull head) after applying my patches and also get a sensation on my testes, the testes I can understand but has anyone else had sensation/pain in the head?

I don’t smoke and exercise quite enough, not lots but more than a lot and although skinny I have a nice-ish body although it’s more like a 18 year old’s body.

I have been like this since as long as I can remember when, at 18 etc.

I started taking drugs recreational when I was 14 or so way before my body had developed these included dope and LSD. I remember about 16 or 17 just when my body was changing having a bad trip and really messed me up for a day or two, could this somehow have messed up my development? I don’t have much body hair although I have a very good head of hair and I really only need to shave my chin and that’s only twice a week. My penis is small and thin when flaccid but when erect it’s 6.1 length so pretty normal although it never stays hard and I always lose concentration or am never really horny enough even with Viagra, it’s kind of rubbery then.

Thanks for listening and any advice would be welcome before I do battle with my nice but not very knowledgeable doctor

Bump

I have been following this thread for sometime. For the last several years, I figured my T levels were dropping, and was using tribulus to keep me feeling young. I stopped a year ago when I developed HBP. After trying to lower it for sometime naturally, I finally bit the bullet and went to a MD. It is now under control. When drawing blood, I made sure to have them test for Test. It came back low normal (I forget the number) and he prescribed androgel pump. I just got back from the pharmacy and remembered this thread.

Just wondering if you have any updates, or advice.

Thanks

manage123452000

I’m sure 789 will give you some advice when he sees this thread again. Last I heard he was doing well with his numbers but it did take awhile.


I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work. Thomas Edison (1847-1931)

Thanks Dino

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