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How to -LOWER- my testosterone

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Originally Posted by mravg
I feel for you. Those symptoms really suck, and it is easy to come to the conclusion that they are T related. But they sound like symptoms of depression to me. Or maybe a thyroid or other hormone problem. I don’t know, I’m just saying that with your T levels including high free T, you can’t go on focusing on T as the problem without looking deeper into your physical and mental health.

Sorry mravg for being a bit of a dick, it is just very aggravating to be male and not exhibit the characteristics that make us male, for whatever reason, maybe the Endocrinologist can help.

I am on a anti-depressant, I do realize that that has an effect, but I have almost always been this way, even before medication.

It may seem trivial but I want to wake up with a boner for once, or look at a women and feel the deep desire to “fuck the shit of her” instead of just seeing her as sexy or beautiful. I want my dick to get me into trouble. I want to talk about women with the guys and mean what I say not just fake it or stay silent. And for once I’d like to get an erection in a embarrassing situation.

I am going to see my psychiatrist on Wednesday I believe or Thursday and I will see my therapist in august although I might try to see him sooner. Maybe this is all in my head, but I want to fix it. I just can’t see how I would be imagining it all the time. At least once shouldn’t my dick spring to life when I see a hot chick or at least there be some desire for sex? I just don’t get it.


-Start: NBPL 5.75" x 5.5" EG-

-Goal: NBPL 7" x 6"-

I guess you could try a short cycle of testosterone, just to see how it makes you feel. If your problems lie elsewhere, then a moderate increase in T might not improve your symptoms.


Horny Bastard

God, I’m an expert in pushing men’s buttons and turning them into just the sort of man you describe. It’s a pernicious awful trait that I’m ashamed of, but it sounds like you could put it to good use. PM me and I’ll call you up and talk dirty to you. (and try the fish oil ;) I think it’s your dopamine)


I think it's the woman's job to tighten up to fit her man--it's lots easier for us.

Buy my book! The Orgasmic Diet by Marrena Lindberg

Originally Posted by mravg
I feel for you. Those symptoms really suck, and it is easy to come to the conclusion that they are T related. But they sound like symptoms of depression to me. Or maybe a thyroid or other hormone problem. I don’t know, I’m just saying that with your T levels including high free T, you can’t go on focusing on T as the problem without looking deeper into your physical and mental health.


Hey Mravg, one of the primary symptoms of having hypogonadism, is depression and other emotional disorders. I think the whole angle of what can be blamed while living with hypogandism still needs more research and a better plan of success. Until he concludes with a specialist, the best treatment right now is to continue on a proper anti depressant(s) to try and balance out the emotional disorders, other meds recommended by his primary care doctor, eat right, excerise, research excessively, and have patience. If his problem is hypogonadism, once on the proper TRT (and I did read he was on Andogel which is the safest but various from male to male), his emotional disorders will become to lessen during the months. That decrease various from male to male, how he feels, and how the doctor concludes blood tests after he has started on a TRT. It’s not a direct science yet, and hormonal disorders are confusing, but if his problem isn’t too serious he can get much better within a months time.

Just don’t have a defeated attitude yet.
Be stronger and believe you will get thu this. It won’t happen over night and it will be a process but at least if you continue to focus on your image and health you will become that success you always wish you could. It will take more time, be patient friend.

Fish oil is in no way an ‘herbal supplement’. That’s just silly.

It’s just a part of eating right. The typical Western diet (especially in the US) is stripped of the Omegas. There’s no reason to avoid fish oil, barring some horrendous allergy. It’s different than Tribulus and certainly VERY different than 6-OXO.

I agree that Manchuck’s symptoms are sounding more depression related than hormonal. His testosterone seems fine and I think mravg was very articulate on that point.

As far as the symtpoms, Manchuck, while it’s certainly true that hormonal imbalances affect mood in serious ways, let’s just think outside that box for a minute.

You’re taking anti-depressants. These can seriously affect the libido. What are you taking? How much and how often?

As far as your longing for spontaneous erections… I don’t know what you expect to be normal. In my case I stopped having random embarassing spontaneous erections as soon as I was out of my teens. VERY occasionally after that did I have them. I have a high sex drive and none of the other problems you do.

Some of the other symptoms you describe, trouble achieving and weak erections, losing them, etc. are certainly problems to grapple with. And I’m not at all denying that your problems aren’t very real. But there is an air of doom and gloom you are projecting that makes me guess that your focus on testosterone isn’t a bit misplaced.

I certainly could be wrong. So you may want to exhaust that possibility and consult with an endocrinologist…fair enough.

But what if he tells you the same thing? Then what?

You’ve got to work on your outlook even as you correct the problems. The fish oil is a good place to start. It’s just a good nutrient oriented approach. It improves brain function and is good for the cardio-vascular system. zane’s recommendations are the equivalent of having a lot of salmon or herring in your diet. Nothing wrong with that.

So the idea that you should avoid fish oil is snake oil. Or at least ill advised advice.


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:

Originally Posted by Chosendudenyc
a
Just don’t have a defeated attitude yet.

Be stronger and believe you will get through this. It won’t happen over night and it will be a process but at least if you continue to focus on your image and health you will become that success you always wish you could. It will take more time, be patient friend.


Your compassion and support are admirable, as is your desire to help. I commend you for it. :thumbs:

I would caution you, though. His problems may not be your problems. For him to seek a specialist is a good idea - there may be some clarity to be found there one way or the other.

Just curious, is English your second language?


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy
You’re taking anti-depressants. These can seriously affect the libido. What are you taking? How much and how often?

Cymbalta, 60mg, once a day.

I know it could have nothing to do with Testosterone, I just can’t understand how it could be anything else.

I just compare myself to others and I am nothing like any of my male peers. Every time I am out with any male friends they feel the need to point out every decent girl with in a ten mile radius. Look at that ass, look at those tits, I’d do this to her, I’d do that. They get all excited and their eyes glaze over. They stare for as long as possible without getting caught.

Anytime the female form pops up, whether on TV, in a magazine, where ever, they feel the need to comment on it, look at it, and discusses it. They love to swap stories about encounters and experiences. They love cheap feels and strip clubs. They claim to go crazy if they go a week or so without sex ( I have done a 4 year stretch and now a three year only three one time experiences under my belt). They like to punch each other and get physical with each other when they drink.

I do none of these thing and I never have. I don’t stare at women, I glance, take it in and I am done. Staring any longer then that serves no purpose for me. I don’t sit there and fantasize about what I’d like to do to her like my peers do. I am not into cheap thrills like grabbing or slapping ass. I could never understand why that was something guys were into anyway. Wow I touched you butt for a second, that was great.

I don’t like to talk about chicks, I don’t feel the need to point out the hot ones and comment on their features. I don’t find screen savers, TV programs, magazines, posters, etc… of scantly clad women exciting in anyway. Christ look at the sales of Maxim and such magazines. My old boss would just buy it for the pics of girls inside, not for the articles. He would show me all the time and I would just fake enthusiasm. I never though “horseplay” among male friend was fun, why hit each other? But everyone I have ever known does it.

I could go on forever, I just feel like I don’t exhibit any of the characteristics of the average male. I don’t discuss women, I don’t stare at them, I don’t fantasize about them, I don’t get all horny and chase after them, I don’t “get off” at the sight of barely dressed women on TV or in magazines.

I don’t like strippers (I have to pay someone to pretend to like me? Please what’s the point) and every guy I know LOVES strippers. I don’t feel physically attracted to women, I only masturbate to relieve stress, not because I get horny and worked up, I never get “worked up”. In fact to even get hard I have to look at the most hardcore disgusting shit I can find for porn.

You know how they say the average male thinks about sex like hundreds of times a day. I maybe think about once, and that’s only when I think about the fact that I am not having any.

Plus I am always tired, no matter how much sleep I get, I have always been like this. Everyday is a struggle to stay awake and get shit done.
Could this all be depression? Shit I hope so, I can fix that. Any tips?

As far as the T levels are concerned just because you are between the two extreme points of the scale doesn’t mean your average or average is OK. A C grade is considered average right. A C is a shitty grade. I am dumb as a box of rocks and I maneged to keep a 3.25-3.5 through high school and college, smoking pot everyday and putting in minimal effort (although the education system in this country sucks, I am a prime example of how they just push people through). I know I making an assumption about the testosterone, but all the information I have uncovered states that the level I am at is a high level for someone 30+. Considering I am 24 shouldn’t it be higher? And doesn’t testosterone make you exhibit all the characteristics above? I just want to be your a-typical horn dog guy. The only time I have EVER felt like any of the guys is fucked out of my head on Coke and that of course is not a solution.

I will wait to see what the Doctor who knows his shit says. At that point if it is not hormones I can look elsewhere. I have my an appointment with my Psychiatrist tomorrow and I am going to mention the libido thing. Maybe he can help in someway. Maybe i should try Dostinex or something similar, or course I won’t purchase this shit or try any herbal stuff (next time I am out I am going to buy fish oil however) until I have exhausted all possibilities with Doctors.

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy
As far as your longing for spontaneous erections… I don’t know what you expect to be normal. In my case I stopped having random embarassing spontaneous erections as soon as I was out of my teens. VERY occasionally after that did I have them.

I kind of meant getting one when a hot chick was around, or at a strip club, or some type of visual stimulus in a public situation. I never get an erection unless I force myself to and I have been with plenty of guys in many situation who “couldn’t get up for a minute” because they got hard.

I just feel freakish that I don’t feel the same way as all the guys I know, that I don’t act the same, and I can’t understand their thought process. It is aggravating

Thanks for all the support, whether it is my T levels or something else like depression I really need to fix it. I just want to feel like one of the guys.


-Start: NBPL 5.75" x 5.5" EG-

-Goal: NBPL 7" x 6"-

Maybe you are gay. Maybe you just aren’t attracted to women. Maybe the thought of being gay is so abhorrent to you that you repress your true sexual feelings. Just a thought.


Horny Bastard

Originally Posted by mravg
Maybe you are gay. Maybe you just aren’t attracted to women. Maybe the thought of being gay is so abhorrent to you that you repress your true sexual feelings. Just a thought.

I have really though about this one actually, and deep down to my core I believe the answer is no. I have a few gay friends and have been to several events where I was one of maybe 5 hetero people in a sea of gays.

I have been groped, fondled and propositioned and none off that did anything for me.

I have watched gay porn as well, again nothing. I don’t find men attractive.

I actually wish it was that simple, my gay Friends party like rock stars and have more sex then any hetero guy I know. Hell I think it would be a blast to be gay. I know someone right now I could call and fuck around with. But Alas I don’t think that’s it.

When you drunk as shit and you have a gay guy trying to shove his tongue down your throat and grabbing your ass and you know no one would judge you and you still don’t feel right about it then I think your not gay. Plus every gay person I have meet has almost instantly knows I am not gay with their built in gay-dar.

It may sound funny mravg, but I really wish I was gay. It would actually make my life easier.

Good call though, I would have gone straight for the closet gay thing too.


-Start: NBPL 5.75" x 5.5" EG-

-Goal: NBPL 7" x 6"-

It’s dopamine. Read the Cabergoline thread. It’s not your testosterone. You don’t have to raise it with fish oil, there are other ways, but I think high-dose fish oil is your best and healthiest bet.


I think it's the woman's job to tighten up to fit her man--it's lots easier for us.

Buy my book! The Orgasmic Diet by Marrena Lindberg

Originally Posted by zaneblue
It’s dopamine. Read the Cabergoline thread. It’s not your testosterone. You don’t have to raise it with fish oil, there are other ways, but I think high-dose fish oil is your best and healthiest bet.

Thanks Zaneblue, it trust you opinion, I was planning on giving fish oil a try. I am just going to go pick some up locally that I can get cheap or maybe order some from the Internet. I will review the other threads concerning fish oil.

Does anyone think that Dostinex would help?


-Start: NBPL 5.75" x 5.5" EG-

-Goal: NBPL 7" x 6"-

My take after reading this thread and your posts is that you’re severely depressed and perhaps have a little OCD-like stuff going on with your desire to be ‘normal’ and like these other guys you keep talking about.

The rabid sexualized focus these guys have is not normal in my opinion. I’d be willing to bet a lot of it is posturing. Over-compensating to prove some idea of masculinity. It’s bullshit. While there’s nothing really wrong with strip clubs and porn and Maxim, it’ also a pretty limited way to relate to and define your sexuality. I wasn’t doing all that shit at that age. Strippers are a waste of money and energy. And they aren’t going to help you get healthy. If you are using this kind of guy behavior as your model of ‘normal’ that’s part of your problem.

I’d bet a $100 that the endrocinologist finds you to be fine hormonally.

Depression can be very serious and can lead people into compulsive behavior. I think this much more likely in your case. You are so focused on ‘what’s wrong with me, I’m not a real man’ you’re finding it to be true. That kind of low self-esteem can easily bring on performance anxiety. Not everyone is going to sport wood in the presence of a hot stripper. Simple nervousness can keep an erection from happening.

I don’t know about the drug you’re on: I’m not familiar. Are there sexual side effects? They are common with most chronic depression drugs.

zane is part right. I bet a dopamine boost would be good for you. Fish oil will be the most natural way to boost it. It’s good for you.

Dostinex - I don’t know. Talk to a doctor. See a Psychopharmocologist. DON’T randomly experiment with Rx drugs. Your issues are complicated enough.

In any event the answer does not lie in a pill, perscription or oil (although the oil can’t hurt and will probably help). It’s good you’re in therapy. There’s a lot you have to work on that won’t be found in any pill. There may be pills that are helpful - they aren’t the answer - just part of a solution to getting healthy.

You need to face you .


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy
The rabid sexualized focus these guys have is not normal in my opinion. I’d be willing to bet a lot of it is posturing. Over-compensating to prove some idea of masculinity. It’s bullshit. While there’s nothing really wrong with strip clubs and porn and Maxim, it’ also a pretty limited way to relate to and define your sexuality.

The more I think about this could be very true. I never hung out in an all guy crew. Most guys that I know grew up that way. So I think that plays a big part. I think guys who hang out in a group feel the need to constantly prove their “maleness” to each other by being as stereotypical as possible. Being rabid about sports, women, and beer - the simple guy stuff. “Hey lets go watch the big game, get smashed and try to pick up chicks” kind of stuff. Never ran with anyone like that, I always hung out with a very diverse group of people.

It would be simple wonderful if I could actually sit down with all these guys and have frank conversation about how much of their behavior is actually real and how much of it they do because they feel they have to do it. But that will never.

I just feel so uncomfortable because every time I meet anyone new it is pretty much the same shit. They bring up sports, women, cars/bikes/boats (guys toys) or parting, the last two are the only ones I can connect with.

I hate this frat boy mentality.

To be honest Mr. Happy I wouldn’t really care about not feeling the same way as all these guys do expect for the fact they all look at me like I have three heads when I don’t agree or show the same amount of enthusiasm about whatever stupid stereotypical guy shit they are ranting about.

I think I just need to surround myself with people who have other interests besides toys, sports, pussy, and beer.

I don’t know, well see. I go to the shrink today in a hour and I will see what he says about the libido problem. He is a great Doctor and doesn’t just hand out pills for everything like most shrinks. He actually tries to work with what’s going on in my therapy and only tries medication as a last resort and sparingly. For instance he wouldn’t prescribe anything for my panic attacks because the medication was addictive and he realized I had an additive personality and decided it wouldn’t be a good idea to have me walking around with a Zanax prescription.

I can’t say enough how great everyone is on this forum. It really helpful to have intelligent people read my posts and give me good advice.


-Start: NBPL 5.75" x 5.5" EG-

-Goal: NBPL 7" x 6"-

Finding a comfort level with your own sexuality is a personal challenge. No doubt.

If you aren’t as sexually driven as the other young men you meet that could be the good news. There’s a lot of time and energy wasted with the compulsory chasing of tail.

Maybe put the energy you’ve been using to obsess over testosterone into an area that will tangibly improve your quality of life? Your career, your education…your car….something?

It’s good you have a good therapist, they are hard to find.

As far as sex is concerned. Don’t worry about it. Your time is going to come. It’s clear that you have a few things to work out first. One thing at a time.

I will say you have a very grounded sense of truth about yourself. Your examples of these other guys attitudes versus your own feelings reveal that you are in tune with what is real for you. In that respect you are light years ahead of those you feel judged by, trust me. You don’t have three heads, you have one good one.

Sex is good for people. It’s a basic drive and therefore a need. But the mind does internally rank these drives. Food and sleep are higher up, for example, than sex. Safety is also higher up. When we’re talking real baseline needs, there are a few things that need to be in place for us before sex can happen. No matter who we are.

Your depression and anxiety seem to me to be interfering with your sex life and sexual identity. I think this has to do with your internal sense of safety. Once that is resolved then your self-confidence and self-esteem will have room to grow. This will have a direct impact on your sexual abilities.

I think the questions you and your therapist have to work through are deeper than sex. Sex is important and you may need to address this along the way, but look for your internal value as a human being and overcoming the obstacles that stand in the way of that. This will do a lot to put EVERYTHING in your life into place.

You’ll get through this. Keep working.

:)


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:

Any news, ManChuck?? How ya been doing?!

By the way, as far as interpreting your total T of 563: Everyone’s T levels vary considerably, so what you have is just a snapshot of one moment in time. Stress and depression are variables that will certainly depress T, so, the fact that you were able to naturally produce a total T of that magnitude while under a lot of emotional turmoil is actually a very encouraging sign, indeed.

You might also want to go back and identify what were the Internet sources that led you to a conclusion that your total T is equivalent to a 40-year old man. How credible were these sources? And what precisely did they state? You might discover that your interpretation of a 563 is excessively grim.

Also, how much do you figure Cymbalta has alleviated your depression? All medications carry some risk, and many anti-depressants have been linked to sexual dysfunction. Therefore, if it’s not working, you might consider either stopping antidepressants altogether, or, trying another type, preferably one with the lowest incidence of sexual dysfunction as a side effect. Why keep taking a drug if it is not really working?

Finally, more powerful in determining your sense of well being that your T levels, your finances, your sex drive, your dick size, or anything else IS YOUR ATTITUDE. Is your therapist working with you to increase your capacity to notice when you are engaging in negative thinking, and replace it with something more truthful?

There’s a trap I fall into, maybe you can relate — thinking that my attitude and actions will improve when my reality (sex drive, finances, relationship, job, whatever) improves, when really, this is ass-backwards. Catch the point?

I am working on many of these very issues myself, with varying degrees of success. I am offering my two cents only in an attempt to be helpful.

By the way, what, if anything HAS been helpful for you in these past months?

Best to you, and don’t give up!

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