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High Estrogen levels on Athletic 20 year old... WTF DUDE

I can’t see what that is demonstrating, honestly.

Originally Posted by marinera
It’s known fact? By who?

Those within the industry.

Originally Posted by thethickone

Some excellent points. Even some endocrinologist are clueless about Testosterone levels and so on!

Absolute nonsense. Do you know what an endocrinologist is, and the process of becoming one?

27/05/07 7,6" Bpel - 5,3" Eg - 5,3" Fl

02/06/08 8,1" Bpel - 5,6" Eg - 5,7" Fl


Toxicological findings and manner of death in autopsied users of anabolic androgenic steroids

Anna Petersson a, Mats Garle c, Per Holmgren d, Henrik Druid a, Peter Krantz e, Ingemar Thiblin b,!
a Department of Forensic Medicine, Karolinska Institute, Sweden b Department of Forensic Medicine, Uppsala University, Dag Hammarskj¨ods v 17, S-752 37 Uppsala, Sweden c Department of Pharmacology, Huddinge University Hospital, Doping Laboratory, Sweden d Department of Forensic Chemistry, Link¨oping University Hospital, Sweden e Department of Forensic Medicine, Lund University Hospital, Sweden

The AAS users were compared to 68 deceased users of amphetamine and/or heroin who were consecutively tested and found to be negative for AAS. ……. AAS-related deaths differed
in several respects from deaths among users of heroin or amphetamine, most strikingly with regard to: (a) the median age at death, which was significantly lower for AAS users (24.5 years) than for users of heroin and/or amphetamine (34 and 40 years, respectively); (b) the manner of death, with AAS users dying significantly more often from homicide or suicide than users of other drugs

These results support the earlier reported association between use of AAS and use of other psychoactive substances. In addition, the data suggest that AAS users are more likely to become involved in incidents leading to violent death and have a higher risk of dying at a younger age than users of other drugs.

Science Direct

This clearly shows that those amateurs AAS users know more than Docs about that stuff.

Invictus I would try not to worry too much mate I’m sure your ok.. Try not to mess with your hormones if you can,it can cause unwanted sideaffects. I used to take alot of steroids especially test, and my boners are harder when in off them, I’m more horney as well,so it just goes to show that there isnt a 100% guarenttee it will change anything if you do start messing with ur hormones. When you are on an off cycle it can be devastating for your sex drive as well. Peace

Start Stats ( 11/3/09) BPEL = 6.5 EG= 5.75

Last Measurement (31/5/09) BPEL = 6.9 / 7

Next measurement = ( 30/6/09 )

Originally Posted by thethickone
Not really. I’ve known some Endo’s that didn’t want to treat hormonal imbalances and then see another Endo go ape crap over the same test results. It’s a known fact that quite a few body builders are more up to date and knowledgeable about the hormonal levels than most doctors.

I agree 100% I have met a few endocrinologists who weren’t too great with HRT. Only a Hormone replacement therapy specialist really seems to know what they are doing.

Cause and manner of death among users of anabolic androgenic steroids

Thiblin, I

Department of Forensic Medicine, Karolinska Institute, Stockholm, Sweden.

Lindquist, O

Department of Forensic Medicine, Uppsala University, S-171 77 Stockholm, Sweden.

Rajs, J

Department of Forensic Medicine, Karolinska Institute, Stockholm, Sweden.


Medicolegally investigated deaths among 34 male users of anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) are described. Nine persons were victims of homicide, 11 had committed suicide, 12 deaths were judged as accidental and 2 as indeterminate.

In two cases of accidental poisoning, the levels of pharmaceuticals and illicit drugs were considered too low to be the sole cause of death and AAS was considered part of the lethal polypharmacia.

Chronic cardiac changes were observed in 12 cases. In two cases of accidental poisonous deaths, these changes were regarded as contributory cause of death.

Homicides, suicides, and poisonings determined accidental or indeterminate in manner were related to impulsive, disinhibited behavior characterized by violent rages, mood swings, and/or uncontrolled drug intake.

The observations in the present study indicate an increased risk of violent death from impulsive, aggressive behavior, or depressive symptoms associated with use of AAS. There are also data to support earlier reports of possible lethal cardiovascular complications from use of AAS. Furthermore, a contributing role of AAS in lethal polypharmacia is suggested. Finally, the observations indicate that use of AAS may be the gateway of approach to abuse of other psychotropic drugs.…FS45100X16X.htm

Oh yeah, deep knowledge of the stuff.

Yeah we are all raging homicidal maniacs. That is why my bosses love me to bounce at our action packed clubs and are recruiting me for their bodyguard company. They know I want to crack skulls.

Originally Posted by HardHead
Absolute nonsense. Do you know what an endocrinologist is, and the process of becoming one?

I’m not going to waste my time arguing with you. I know exactly what they do and the process. I went to med school at Georgetown University for 2 years before my son was born with CP and I had to quit. In any event I’m not the only one saying it.

Originally Posted by ironaddict69
I agree 100% I have met a few endocrinologists who weren’t too great with HRT. Only a Hormone replacement therapy specialist really seems to know what they are doing.


Originally Posted by thethickone
I’m not going to waste my time arguing with you. I know exactly what they do and the process. I went to med school at Georgetown University for 2 years before my son was born with CP and I had to quit. In any event I’m not the only one saying it.

No, you aren’t the only one saying it. I have had doctors thrash many endo’s. They are very good with diabetes, but most doctors SUCK with using AAS for their designed treatments.

Anavar was created for children who weren’t maturing and growing, and also to help with AIDS and Cancer in how they really combat the weight loss caused by these diseases. So were ALL the other steroids.

Having someone post studies of dead bodies that had AAS found in their body has very little to do with this thread in the first place. None of the deaths were FROM STEROIDS. It just so happens that the sample they took either committed suicide, or were murderers. Steroids don’t cause suicide, mental disorders from the get-go do.

Invictus needs a little bit of medical help and I believe his levels to be pretty low for most twenty year olds. Lets stay on task. Invictus, me and a few others WILL help you. I had a testosterone level of 256 for about 7 months. You aren’t nearly that low and probably still functioning sexually, but when I was a teen and had this bad problem, I was in my own personal Hell.

I feel the need to counter some of the Steroid Scare stuff with some medical HRT stuff. Low testosterone is indeed an issue for some guys. While invictus’ labs don’t “appear” to put him in this category that is for he and his doctors to sort out. Appearances can be deceiving - the best doctors know to treat the patient, not the lab report. Anyways:…one-early-death

Low Testosterone, Early Death?
Higher Death Risk in Men With Lower Testosterone Levels
By Daniel J. DeNoon
WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD

Nov. 27, 2007 — The lower a man’s testosterone level, the higher his risk of death — especially death from heart disease.

The finding comes from a study of British men aged 40 to 79 by University of Cambridge gerontologist Kay-Tee Khaw, MBBCh, and colleagues.

“The men with lower testosterone levels had an increased risk of dying from any cause, but most particularly of cardiovascular disease,” Khaw tells WebMD. “We looked at cancer, too, and found no evidence of a link to cancer with higher testosterone levels.”

Nearly 12,000 men enrolled in the long-term study from 1993 to 1997. More than 800 of the men died by 2003; Khaw compared these men’s testosterone levels to those of some 1,500 living study participants.

After adjusting for factors that might affect risk of death — including age, weight, smoking, alcohol use, high blood pressure, diabetes, physical activity, education, and social class — the link between low testosterone and earlier death remained.

Compared to men with the lowest quartile (25%) of testosterone levels:

Men in the second lowest quartile were 25% less likely to die.
Men in the second highest quartile were 38% less likely to die.
Men in the highest quartile were 41% less likely to die.

“We found that low testosterone predicts early mortality in men over the next 10 years or so,” Khaw says. “But we think this finding needs to be replicated. We would like others to look at this in other populations of men and see if they get the same results.”

The findings make sense to Robert Davis, MD, professor of urology at the University of Rochester, N.Y. Davis says low testosterone is common among men with metabolic syndrome — a constellation of risk factors including abdominal fat, high blood sugar, high blood pressure, low HDL cholesterol, and high blood-fat levels.

“Certainly I’m not surprised at this finding. It’s been shown that low testosterone correlates with metabolic syndrome, which is related to diseases like diabetes, heart disease, and vascular disease,” Davis tells WebMD. “The need to check testosterone levels in people with metabolic syndrome is being recognized more and more among physicians.”

Testosterone Therapy: Studies Needed

Low testosterone may be bad, but it is not clear that testosterone replacement therapy corrects this problem. Only clinical trials can prove whether testosterone supplementation can lower the risk of death linked to low testosterone levels. Ironically, researchers have been reluctant to test testosterone replacement in clinical trials because of worries that the treatment may increase men’s risk of prostate cancer.

“Our study may provide some reassurance of those planning trials of testosterone supplementation,” Khaw says. “The irony is that while a lot of men believe testosterone supplements may be good for their health, those trials have not been done because of ethical concerns of testosterone causing prostate cancer.”

Davis worries that doctors are too wary of prescribing testosterone supplements for men with too-low testosterone levels.

“It is a very underdiagnosed and undertreated problem,” he says. “One of the myths is that androgen supplementation will cause a cancer. We know that prostate cancer often regresses when androgen is removed, but there is very little evidence that supplementing to normal levels increases risk of cancer, and some evidence it may lower it.”

Khaw and colleagues report their findings in the Dec. 4 issue of the journal Circulation.

I would like the people here, some very well versed in PE to compare and contrast the plight of AAS and PE. I think PE is probably 20 years behind AAS. I remember when many doctors would claim that Steroids did not help build muscle. Now everyone knows about AAS, but no legit means (besides HRT) of using them. You still have to go out and do your own information. Very similar to PE even today.

No offense Para, but look at a small change in your quote:

Originally Posted by Para-Goomba
Trying to fix hormone levels that aren’t broken is risky business.

New Quote:

Trying to penises that aren’t broken is risky business.

Co-sign ironaddict on most, except as to invictus being ‘low’— he first worried that his estrogen was high due to what he felt were inappropriate emotions and now the issue is whether normal range test is high enough for his preference to be in some ‘optimum’ range.

I still say first check for dietary estrogens and overtraining before you start exogenous interference with your endocrine homeostasis.

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