Why gains slow!

This is a great thread, very good tech info!

Shiver or Penismith,

Any thoughts as to the benefit of using Vitamin E topically?

Have there been any studies relating to fibrosis and the topical application of Vitamin E?

Thanks.

PS, Shiver:

Really wonderful research and posting gentlemen - just outstanding!

I have several thoughts/conjectures to offer just to open/continue dialog.

DISCLAIMER! - Anything I post in terms of what I am doing is personal to my own situation and IS NOT A RECOMMENDATION to anyone else to do likewise. This is offered only to stimulate thought and dialog.

First - DMSO: If you want some field experience aside from your excellent research article(s) on the practical applications of DMSO just talk to a race horse veterinarian or trainer. DMSO has been used for many years to treat animal injuries (horse linament) and it can get a horse back on the track faster than just about anything. I have used it on myself for a long time (5 years very sparingly for various dings and issues). Here’s an example: nail fungus - I got a bad nail infection from gardening and nothing seemed to work until I used Tea Tree Oil together with DMSO gel. The combination kills nail fungus because with DMSO it penetrates deeply into the nail bed where the fungus resides and the combination kills it. Here’s another - I had a skin Lesion that wouldn’t heal up - made a paste of DMSO and vitamin C - gone in a week, no scar.

Yes, I use DMSO as part of my PE routine. It is a combination of 90% DMSO and 10% AloeVera gel. Since I am a relative newbie to Thunders all I can offer right now is to offer my posts and, as things develop, I will keep the community aprised of my experience with the topical use of DMSO/AloeVera gel as part of my PE experience. Again, what I do is not a recommendation to anyone else to use DMSO. I have my own pet theory about why I think DMSO is right for me because it ‘fits’ in to my particular combination of PE elements.
I have a certain routine and my use of the gel is part of a sequence.

Also, if the thread moderator feels that my using DMSO might be a siren’s call to others despite my disclaimer above then please delete my post.

Question to al PE-r’s? Irrespective of age, how many of you gentlemen KNOW what your hormone profiles are? And, along the same lines, KNOW what your blood type is? The reason for raising this issue about Hormones and blood type is that if you have a hormonal imbalance it can block what you are trying to do. For instance, a man over 40 might have too much estrogen (because aromatase enzyme associated with body fat converts his testosterone to estrogen). Estrogen down regulates androgen receptors and your cock shrivels up while your prostate baloons! Unless you track hormones and take steps to balance them and measure them regularly you are flying blind (JMHO). And, I am talking about FREE circulating hormones, not just the so-called total hormone. There are proteins in the blood that tie up most of a hormone like Testosterone so it is unavailable for cell regulation.

Why blood type? Well, this is admittedly a stretch. But if I have two men that have normal hormonal profiles doing the same PE exercise regimen over a long time and one gains while the other man doesn’t, what if they have different blood types? What works for a type O may not work as well for a type A or Type B. Just some food for thought.

Great thread guys - thanks for all of your diligence and hard work,

MrTiPS

Andrew: I don’t think Vit E would be an issue and should be somewhat beneficial. They use it for Peyronies I believe, but with limited improvement.

MrTips: Some interesting stuff there. I believe DMSO is one of the few safe wonder products available to us today. It has so many uses, I just wish it didn’t have the odour or I’d use it for everything. The odour is the only reason I use MSM for things, but there are some things that MSM just cannot do that DMSO can. The DMSO/Vit-C by the way is supposed to be very effective for cancers - especially ones that can be reached direct topically such as melanomer, but that’s a whole ‘n’other discussion.

I don’t know my blood type, and I’ve never had a hormonal profile done. It seems from what I’ve read on forums that in the US almost everyone has their bloodwork done regularly. Over here I don’t know a single person who has. That’s the wonderful overstretched NHS for you :) I got a PSA kit this week that I haven’t tried yet, but I’ve also recently read that a PSA test is next to useless for a prognosis, so I don’t whether to use it.

In experimenting with training, nutrition prohormones and some limited hormone experimentation (therapeutic doses), I would say I have a tendancy towards estrogen when test is low. In fact the reason I quit finasteride (well one of the reasons) was that when I’d been out for a beer or 50, the next day or so I would have very severe problems with social anxiety/emotional excesses. Without the finasteride or without the alcohol there is never an issue. I guess with low T, Low DHT and probably higher E, one of them had to go. I don’t think I have clinically low levels except when influences by poor lifestyle decisions such as excess alcohol and not enough exercise. Managed properly I’m on top of the world. That said, once I identified the above effects I went all out to murder estrogen. That was a bad move as I couldn’t walk downstairs without my joints creaking. Moderation in all things I guess.

As for Blood type, why not conduct a poll?

It might be worth doing some reading on AloVera too. I’m sure I’ve heard of it being a contributing factor in fibrosis. Not sure, but I think I read that at Hairsite when they were discussing topical vehicles possibilities.

Hi Shiver,

The DMSO gel I use is compounded with mint so there is no obnoxious odor. I have had superb results with it. The DMSO goes deep and the aloevera is great for the skin. Also, if I ever were to suffer any discoloration caused by Ferric or Ferrous residues (micro hemorages), I wouldn’t hesitate one minute to mix up a bit of the gel together with Vitamin C powder and especially AlphaLipoic Acid powder from capsules (say 1% by weight) and apply it topically to get rid of the Iron residues. This is VERY important as iron residues cause hydroxyl free radicals to form which can raise holy hell with any protein turnover that would otherwise promote cell growth.

In my earlier post I mentioned getting baseline hormone measurements and knowing your blood type. To further expand that theme of ‘If you don’t measure it, you cannot control it’ I submit an additional suggestion:

Measure Your Minerals, too! - this can be easily done by taking a hair sample and submitting it to a qualified laboratory for analyses. Why? You’d be surprised how many people have high levels of toxic heavy metals in their bodies such as lead, mercury (from dental amalgam and vaccine innoculations), and cadmium. Cadmium interferes with Zinc - and Zinc is essential to penile and prostate health.

Two generations ago our grandfathers had an average NBPEL of 6.5 inches - now days, that number has dropped to 5.72 inches and is shrinking - probably due to all of the xenoestrogens and pollutants that we ingest that screw up our metabolism and our hormonal balance. Hell, no wonder the women say size matters - they’d like us to get back to normal like our grandfathers! JMHO

Great stuff Shriver & PS - thanks,

MrTiPS

Shiver,

You said:

“In experimenting with training, nutrition prohormones and some limited hormone experimentation (therapeutic doses), I would say I have a tendancy towards estrogen when test is low.”

A low T/E is a real bummer for a man. As part of your hormone experimentation, did you ever work with progesterone cream applied transdermally? Progesterone can do many positive things in terms of rebalancing T/E provided it is used in moderation and wisely. If not used wisely and to excess, P accumulates in the subsutaneous fat tissue and builds up to extreme levels that take a long time to dissapate so care is needed and that’s why periodic hormone profiles are essential. These can be done by taking saliva samples with a good laboratory. There are at least three really good labs here in the USA. Saliva samples can be sent via postal courier.

Just some Thoughts,

MrTiPS

The only time I ‘actively’ used progesterone was years back when I had some testroxin (sp?) gel. I never noticed anything physically with it though. I’ve used anti-E’s, DHT, Test, winstrol and various herbs (Tribulus, Tongkat, Avena etc).

The ferrous/dmso use sounds like something I might try. It’s a long time since I read about all this. Do you mean to say you can get your unit back to its pre-PE lilly white complexion?

I’ve just requested the updated Pezzi book as I didn’t realise how out of date it had become (I have version 486 and latest is 979!).

Hey Shiver,

Maybe not Lilly White but the closer you can get to removing iron pigment the better. Just think, if the surface is discolored, what must the internal fascia be like?! Scary to think of the potential for free-radical damage caused by iron residues - but, that may be a possibility. Alphalipoic Acid and vitamin C are powerful chelating agents and can remove the free, in situ iron. Otherwise, you’re literally rusting from the inside out and those tissues are aging at an accelerated pace. Kiss any PE gains goodbye.

As to progesterone, you might want to check out some of the materials on the late Dr. John Lee website Official Website of John R. Lee, M.D., Expert in Progesterone and HRT and look under prostate. Pezzi also talks a lot about T/E and P.

All the Best,

MrTiPS

Shiver,
Just on the Topical Verapamil, I found some interesting case studies

One of the intersting observations they made was that subjects taking Vitamin C responded poorly to the treatment. Sounds like Vitamin C is a real no-no for PE’ers.

Well spotted Andrew. I had read that a couple of times and never noticed the Vit-C because my alarm bells were ringing so loudly over the Glucosamine/Condroitin observation.

I’ve always thought of the Vit-C as an enabler, but never as an inhibitor (to collagenase). Granted those are pretty high doses of supplemental Vit-C, but it might be worth limiting Vit-C to what is normally in the diet. That is useful info for Electrons thread in Vit-C.

So it’s starting to look somthing like this:

+ Verapamil
+ Vit-E
- Vit-C

Perhaps eventually we will be able to compile a table of foods/supplements/drugs and their impact on PE.

Mr. Tips, you are not alone with DMSO usage. I ditto your disclaimer as well, I cannot and will not endorse its use to anyone. I used it extensively while hanging for long periods of time, currently I only use it sparingly when I think I need it. I am anticipating on making a breakthrough report on May 10, 2005. I will not report on any current regimens, routines, measurements, or disclose any theories I have until I have a leg to stand on.

AH

In a personal communication with Bib quite awhile ago, he told me that he applied lots of Arnica and Vit E lotion to his penis every day. I thought he was doing so to protect the skin. I have no memory of him mentioning it in relation to fibrosis and I don’t know if it is possible that enough penetrated far enough to fight fibrosis plaque formation in general, but it is interesting and consistent with our hypothesis.

I have not spent enough time looking to find his reasoning but I found this:
Excellent Advice From Bib

Do any of the other "old timers" have anything to add on Bib’s Arnica and Vit e use?

Guys,

I’ve just discovered this thread. There’s a lot to read! One thought that comes to mind, which may or may not have been touched on already, is that the scientific publications listed describe fibrosis of the CC tissue itself. This is different from fibrosis of the ligaments, tunica, or Buck’s fascia.

Our limiting factors in PE are these latter structures, however. I’m not sure we care (from a purely size perspective) what happens inside the sinusoids and smooth muscle of the CC’s. It seems that’s more of an erectile issue than a PE issue.

Sorry if I’ve missed something obvious. Like I said, I’m just starting to read and there’s a wealth of information here.

Great thread, by the way!

>Do any of the other “old timers” have anything to add on Bib’s Arnica and Vit e use?

Am I an old timer yet?

They were used for skin health. The Arnica in combination with wrapping helped clear up his discoloration. BTW, he said only one brand of Arnica worked. He got it at GNC. When I checked a couple years ago my local GNC didn’t have the same stuff.