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Tongkat Ali?

Originally Posted by Luner78
Wouldn’t Tongkat Ali cause major hair loss troubles because of the raised testosterone levels? I mainly want to take it because of Propecias side effects (ED).Propecia stops the conversion of testosterone into DHT.

If Tongkat increases testosterone and propecia inhibits Testosterone to DHT conversion, then it would seem reasonable to expect that if both were taken then testosterone levels could raise while DHT is lower. If you believe that DHT is the cause of hairloss then that should be fine.

Two things I would look out for would be:

1. The effects of Tongkat lessening after a time due to the bodys attempts to steer everything back to how it was (might need cycling to recover the benefits).

2. With all the testosterone about and the DHT route blocked, there may be some symptoms of increased Estrogen. A competitive inhibitor or an aromatase inhibitor may help somewhat.

Bear in mind that in most areas dealing with hormones, if you change one thing it almost always has a ripple effect somewhere else, so it’s probably sensible from time to time to get off everything and get them ‘centred’.

Having said the above, I hope it’s clear to all that messing with hormones isn’t really a smart home medicine project unless you have a good idea of how it is affecting levels and a good understanding of the longer terms risks. Becoming overly familiar with some of these things can sometimes diminish in our minds the gravity of what is actually happening. [as an occasional DIY experimenter of the above, I hope that doesn’t sound too preachy].

I have a long email on file and this is what it says about cycling Tonkat Ali:

“Tongkat ali should be cycled. This means that one takes it for some time, and then, for a shorter period of time, one goes without it. A standard cycle schedule would be 2 to 4 weeks on, 1 to 2 weeks off. However, optimal on-cycle length varies among users (2 weeks to 2 months). Most users will experience a rising phase during which tongkat ali’s effects build up. This means that for many users, there will be little effect on the first day or the first few days of a cycle. One then reaches a high phase during which tongkat ali exerts it’s effect. This phase can last

Anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. After that (still during tongkat ali use) one will enter a falling phase, caused by the body adjusting to the tongkat ali through hormonal negative feedback systems. This is a normal occurrence with anybody’s endocrine system. If hormonal balances are influenced through exogenous measures, the body will aim to return to genetically determined age-related set points. Because tongkat ali itself is not

Testosterone, but only stimulates testosterone production, there is a considerable delay for negative feedback mechanisms, and thus, one can induce higher testosterone levels without the negative effects of steroid use, such as testicular and penile shrinkage (and libido impairment).

However, as the body has many ways to regulate hormone levels, there is a point when raised testosterone levels will start to drop. It is best to then go into an off-cycle (no tongkat ali usage) right away. Off-cycles typically should be about half as long as on-cycles. Thus, if one takes tongkat ali for 4 weeks, the off-cycle should be about 2 weeks in length. On-cycles can vary between 2 weeks and 2 months, and off-cycles should always be about half as long as on-cycles.”

Ties in with your thoughts, Shiver.

I never ever thought that you guys will talk about Tongkat Ali. Eventhough Tongkat Ali is something very common in Malaysia(the place where I belong), I never try it, until recently, when my wife bought me a pack of coffee with Tongkat Ali extract in it. I drink Tongkat Ali coffee once a day, for 3 weeks now, and yes, I think it works for me, having more loads with firmer erections.

Sorry for the English, I’m not that good at it.

Well as an update I have been on Tongkat Ali for almost a month. It took quite a while for the effect to build up and it’s only in the last week that I have seen the full effect I hoped for. My erections are rock hard rather like Viagra but with no bad side effects. Normally I am a bit of a “one shot willy” but now the Tongkat Ali has had it’s effect I can easily go for seconds quite quickly. Also my balls hang low and heavy and my flaccid hang feels heavy too. Whether this will improve further or decline we will have to wait and see. (If it declines I will cycle off the product for half the build up period as advised by the people in Malaysia I bought the capsules from.)

All I can say is so far so good - I’ll keep you posted. I really doubt it helps PE and although there is a study showing that it increases the size of the genitals generally, I suspect that on anything like reasonable (or affordable) doses this effect is minimal. However, don’t let this put you off trying because the sex is great!

Thanks for the one-month report, pgt7787. Please tell us how much you took, how often, and if you are going to cycle it.

BFLR


(12/5/2008) BPEL: 7.75" EG: 5.75" BSFL: 8.1" FL: 5" FG 4.25"||New Goal: NBPEL: 8" EG: 6"

Technique: 95% Wet Jelqing, 5% Low Vacuum Pumping

Photos Journal

Ok, while waiting for pgt’s report, I went and bought me a bottle of Biotest Red-Kat. Each dose is 2 capsules that together contain 200mg Eurycoma Longifolia. I took 2 caps on an empty stomach, ate lunch 45 mins later, and my goodness…..I have been super horny all day since (not normal for me). Very easy to get an erection too. Can’t imagine what’s going to happen after taking this for a month. Since it’s this powerful, I definitely plan to do a 5 day on/2 day off weekly cycle.

Can’t wait to get home this evening!!!

BFLR

P.S. I bought this in a store, not the best price, but I didn’t want to wait. GNC is a total rip off. I bought this at Vitamin Shoppe, but there are some online places like bodybuilding.com and netrition.com that have this stuff rather cheap.


(12/5/2008) BPEL: 7.75" EG: 5.75" BSFL: 8.1" FL: 5" FG 4.25"||New Goal: NBPEL: 8" EG: 6"

Technique: 95% Wet Jelqing, 5% Low Vacuum Pumping

Photos Journal

I did tons of research about the product before buying and cam to the conclusion that the best place to buy is www.tongkatali.co.uk (or www.tongkatali.org outside UK I think). I had no problems dealing with them. Prices almost best but product very high quality.

BigFatLuvRocket - I think 5 days on/2 off is too short a cycle. I am in Week 4 and the affect is still building. Much earlier in this thread I posted the instructions I had on cycling Tongkat. Have a look - maybe 4 weeks on and 1 or 2 off might be better. Personally I will decide when the effect peaks out.

Would you guys who have used/know about Tongkat ali suggest on cycling?
I’m using the product http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sf/eury.html
The recommendation is 2 capsules(1500mg) a day, 5 days on and 2 days off.
Has anyone used it and if so what’s your opinion on this?
When I’m on this stuff my erections are firmer and feel more horny.
Is it wise to stick with the company recommendation or should I cycle it like 4 weeks on and 1 or 2weeks off as some of you folks said in this thread.
I’m on the following supplements.
1. Multivitamin
2. Vig-RX caps - 2 capsules
3. L-Arginine - 3 grams
4. Tongkat Ali - 2 caps(1500mg) - Monday to Friday
5. Tribulus - 1 capsule(500mg of 50% extract) - Monday to Friday
6. Ashwagandha Root - 125mg - Monday to Friday

Please advice.

Well I took a couple of weeks for the full effect to build up, hence my recommendation.

The trouble is, I am having such a good time on the stuff that I really don’t want to cycle off it!! I’ve always liked edging, but on Tongkat I can happily (big smile) edge for 40-45 minutes before blast off. Also the control is awesome.

The other relevant supplements I take are ALA and MSM.

pgt7789, Thanks for your info on tongkat ali. I agree with you on the control I too have while edging when on this stuff. I can edge for about 30 minutes and can go longer if I want to. With Tongkat ali I can feel harder errection especially the head while edging. I will do my experiment with cycling this stuff.

Can this stuff cause hairloss cuz it produces more testosterone?


"Look what your brother did to the door!"

Can’t answer that in so short a time - and I’m not really challenged in that department!

I am challenged, and I know well the itchy scalp that I get when it’s an issue. I never took Tongkat for very long (made my stomach very queezy), but never noticed any detrimental effect on hair. Logic says it could, but in practise I would expect it to be quite minimal.

A quick update: I cycled off Tongkat 2 days ago. I have already noticed that my ballooning is not rock hard like before, but that is only to be expected I suppose.

I decided to cycle off because my balls were starting to ache, so thought I’d give it a rest. The theory is that the off-cycle should be half as long as the on cycle. Whether I’ll stretch to 2 weeks without has yet to be seen!!

That’s why I think 5day/2day cycling makes sense to me. I wonder if you’re body became dependent
in the Tongkat Ali, but also, your balls could rebound after a few days too.

Let us know what happens.

BFLR


(12/5/2008) BPEL: 7.75" EG: 5.75" BSFL: 8.1" FL: 5" FG 4.25"||New Goal: NBPEL: 8" EG: 6"

Technique: 95% Wet Jelqing, 5% Low Vacuum Pumping

Photos Journal

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