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Tongkat Ali?

Originally Posted by Glober
Hey guys I just checked out www.tongkatali.org
There seems to be so many diffrent forms of the product. There’s the roots (which looks like flatten woodchips), then there’s extract powder, then there’s the powder in capsules, etc etc.. Which form is the best? I’d like to hear your thoughts on this guys.

Also, why are these so expensive from this site? Everything is from like 120 bucks up to 600 bucks..
Or am I missing something, are there any cheaper ones on that site? Are these products more superior than the stuff we can get from gnc or something?

Can someone point me to a cheap and good product perhaps?

The reason why its so expensive is because its “retail” price. To get it for around $20/bottle, you’d have to order in a huge quantity (100 bottles) and pay about $2000 US Dollars or you go on eBay and buy it from them.

Originally Posted by ShyMplsMale
The eBay seller above sells the stuff straight from Sumatra Pasak Bumi. Some people don’t feel the effects of it until they get to a higher dosage (like myself).

I used to sell it and I know for a fact that the eBay seller listed above had the same stuff I had and we both got our stuff from TongkatAli.org (just different labels).

ShyMplsMale, thank you for your feedback, I will certainly look into that which you have mentioned and will return some feedback once that has been seen to.Thank you.


05/12/2005 : BPEL: 6.1"x EG:5.5" Current as of : 24/12/2011 : BPEL 7.87" x EG: 6.3" Long term Goal 8.5"x 6.4"

" There is only one option success; for failure is the refusal to persist"

Originally Posted by ShyMplsMale
I don’t know how you guys can stand the taste of the extract. Its probably one of the worse tasting supplements out there (because its so potent). If you want to work up to 3 grams per day, I’d suggest the capsule form and that Ebay seller mentioned above sells bottles of it, also.

There is no way it can taste worst that pure L-Arginine powder. That has to be the worst tasting stuff I’ve ever had and I’ve been taking all kinds of things for years in conduction with my bodybuilding.

I would imagine that the people that TA isn’t working on must be a function or strength of dose or amount. Yohimbe is the same way. You must vary the dosage to get it right.

With L-Arginine I was up to about 6 grams a day before any REAL effects happened for me. Some research showed upwards of 10-15 grams a day of L-Arginine was needed.

Everyone will be different, take more if you can afford it.


TEN COMMANDMENTS The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a Courthouse? You cannot post "Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" and "Thou Shall Not Lie" in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians...It creates a hostile work environment.

Pumper for a while got to the square dick 7X7 , hanging now 7-2010

I take TA in capsule form, and therefore cannot taste it.

I agree that everyone is different when it comes to the effective dosage, esp for supplements which are not really that stringently standardized and researched. You just have to find your own dosage.

Received my order from the Ebay seller Madison mentioned, so they seem legit. Prices do seem to be edging up though.

I’m taking 800mg/day as 2x400mg 1:50 extract capsules twice a day, straight after breakfast and lunch. Third day now and not much to report, maybe just maybe a better flaccid hang but it was hot here yesterday and I drunk alot of water.

Official dosage and dietry information for Tongkat ali

TONGKAT ALI - DOSAGE INFORMATION - from Pasak Bumi

For tongkat ali 1:50 extract, the standard dosage for men is 1.6 gram (1600 mg) to 3.2 gram (3200 mg) per day. Weight lifting athletes may go to twice or even four times that dosage.

For tongkat ali 1:200 extract, the standard dosage for men is 1200 mg per day. Weight lifting athletes take up to 2.4 gram (2400 mg) per day.

First-day dosages should just be one quarter of standard dosages, and second-day dosages should be one half of standard dosages.

Dosages for women are half of the dosages for men.

For optimal results, tongkat ali should be cycled. It is also important to follow the dietary
recommendations given below. If the dietary recommendations are not observed, tongkat ali may have no effect. Certain plant foods absorb tongkat ali’s effectiveness and should therefore be avoided.

TONGKAT ALI CYCLES

Tongkat ali should be cycled. This means that one takes it for some time, and then, for a shorter period of time, one goes without it. A standard cycle schedule would be 2 to 4 weeks on, 1 to 2 weeks off.
Optimal on-cycle length varies among users (1 week to 1 month).

Most users will experience a rising phase during which tongkat ali’s effects build up. This means that for many users, there will be little effect on the first day or the first few days of a cycle. One then reaches a high phase during which tongkat ali exerts its effect. This phase can last anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. After that (still during tongkat ali use) one will enter a falling phase, caused by the body adjusting to the tongkat ali through hormonal negative feedback systems.

This is a normal occurrence with anybody’s endocrine system. If hormonal balances are influenced through exogenous measures, the body will aim to return to genetically determined age-related set points (even if these set points are not optimal for health, and certainly not optimal for sexual conduct). Because tongkat ali itself is not testosterone, there is a considerable delay for negative feedback mechanisms, and thus, one can induce higher testosterone levels without the negative effects of steroid use, such as testicular and penile shrinkage (and libido impairment).

However, as the body has many ways to regulate hormone levels, there is a point when raised testosterone levels will start to drop. It is best to then go into an off-cycle (no tongkat ali usage) right away.
Off-cycles typically should be about half as long as on-cycles. Thus, if one takes tongkat ali for 2 weeks, the off-cycle should be about 1 week in length. On-cycles can vary between 1 week and 1 month, and off-cycles should always be about half as long as on-cycles.

DIETARY GUIDELINES

On-cycles and off-cycles should be accompanied by different nutritional strategies. In order to support testosterone synthesis, an on-cycle diet should be protein-rich: plenty of meet, processed meat like ham, salami, bacon, pastrami, as well as sausages, eggs, cheese (up to 500 gram per day are supportive), milk (land-animal foods).

Fish and seafood should be avoided during on-cycles because it can lead to allergic reactions in combination with tongkat ali.

If tongkat ali is used for pro-sexual effects, it is recommended NOT to consume carbs-rich foods during a tongkat ali on-cycle (no bread, no rice, no pasta, no potatoes, no sweets).

Those who cannot go without carbs on on-cycle days can add nuts. The advantage of nuts over other snack food is that they will counteract the constipation caused by a meat-cheese-eggs diet. If you cannot go without sweets, chocolate is a choice on on-cycle days without
intended sex.

The constitutive component of chocolate that does not go well with tongkat ali is theobromine. Theobromine interferes with erections to a degree that varies from
person to person, but it is never a positive contribution. However, theobromine usually clears from the body within 12 to 14 hours, and this is for how long its interference with tongkat ali lasts. Tea and coffee should also be avoided.

However, if one uses tongkat ali EXCLUSIVELY for bodybuilding (as opposed to pro-sexual parameters), carbs are a necessary part of the diet plan. In that case, the carbs (best will be nuts) should be eaten once a day, approximately 1 hour before training. The tongkat ali should be used after the training session, and again at the hour most distant from the training
session.

Broccoli, cauliflower, soy-based foods, and garlic will be disruptive. One should therefore NOT consume broccoli, cauliflower, soy-based foods, and garlic during on-cycles (even those using tongkat ali for weight-lifting should avoid these vegetables). Because
there are other, less severe interferences with tongkat ali, from other vegetables and fruits, it is best to keep consumption of all fruits and vegetables rather low during on-cycles.

In order to avoid overall nutritional imbalances, the off-cycle diet should be different (or even exactly the opposite) from the on-cycle diet. During off-cycles, one’s diet should emphasize vegetables and fruit, with as little meat, cheese, and eggs as possible. Protein during off-cycles should come mainly from fish. Broccoli, cauliflower, and soy-based foods, as well as garlic, are good dietary choices for off-cycles. Furthermore, during off-cycles, whole-grain breads are well suited to prepare the body for the next on-cycle.

Once one is ready to again use the tongkat ali, one should stop eating whole-grain foods as well as vegetables, and switch back to a diet strong on meat, cheese, and eggs.

DRUG AND FOOD INTERACTIONS

If you take tongkat ali extract for its pro-libido properties, you should not combine it with saw
palmetto or pygeum, or the pharmaceutical finasteride (Proscar). All three block dihydrotestosterone. The enzymatic conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone is necessary to achieve tongkat ali’s libido support.

Also avoid large quantities of soy products, as they contain phytoestrogens that will interfere with testosterone binding sites. It is also best to not combine tongkat ali with garlic. Furthermore, Broccoli and cauliflower, as well as other cabbage-derived vegetables, dampen the testosterone-raising effect of tongkat ali.

If taken for pro-sexual purposes, one has to be aware that tongkat ali works mostly on libido, not on erectile function. For this reason, if you are above 45 and take tongkat ali for its libido-enhancing properties, you may want to combine it with about 50 mg of Viagra (preferred) or 10 mg of Cialis.

For a combination of tongkat ali extract with Viagra, the following usage schedule works best. Some three to four hours before expected sexual intercourse, take 1.2 to 2.4 grams of 1:50 extract with a full meal that contains a good amount of meat and no carbohydrates.
For one to two hours after this meal, your testosterone levels will be below average (large
amounts of food suppress testosterone). Your testosterone will see a natural rebound some two hours after the meal. This is when the tongkat ali extract will also start to kick in, raising your testosterone above your genetic baseline.

It is then best not to eat again until AFTER sexual intercourse. Eating again before sexual intercourse may cause the effect of the tongkat ali to diminish. About 1 hour before expected intercourse, you can add the Viagra.

Please be aware that the combination of tongkat ali extract with Viagra may cause a very noticeable histamine reaction. Facial flushing and a stuffed nose are typical indications of a histamine reaction. These are indications that sexual intercourse will likely be more exciting and satisfying than normal.

TONGKAT ALI SIDE EFFECTS

Side effects are not much of a concern with tongkat ali, especially in those who have taken it for some time. Nevertheless, if your health isn’t optimal, you may want to use less than the standard dosage for a few days, and then increase slowly.

Furthermore, older people will usually have a stronger effect from tongkat ali (as their testosterone levels will already have declined), and side effects are more likely in older users.

Initial side effects could be facial flushing, headache, and testicular pressure. Regardless of your age, these side effects will subside after a few days.

Penile and testicular hypertrophy (increased size) can be a long term side effect, especially with the use of very large dosages, and in those who use tongkat ali at a younger age. This effect can be traced back to the fact that increased testosterone secretion by testicular Leydig cells induces growth of surrounding tissue. (Penile and testicular size increases during puberty, too, are caused by the activation of testicular Leydig cells and the subsequent increased testosterone secretion by these cells; tongkat ali follows the same pathway). Like size increases during puberty, those caused by persistent use of large tongkat ali dosages do not reverse.

AGGRESSIVENESS

The tongkat ali will likely cause you to get carried away much more intensively during intercourse than you would without it. Sex will likely be more aggressive than usual.

In order to get the best (and the best sex) out of tongkat ali, it is important to accept the
aggressiveness caused by tongkat ali as a component of increased libido.

Stop taking the tongkat ali when it starts causing strange sexual desires. Please be aware that strange sexual desires are a potentiation of normal sexual desires, and that virtually anyone can develop aberrant sexual inclinations when testosterone levels are sufficiently raised.

TONGKAT ALI FOR WOMEN

By and large, tongkat ali has the same effect on women as it does on men.

In Southeast Asia, women take tongkat ali to support fertility as well as libido. Most commonly it is used by those who take hormone-based contraceptives (the pill). Indonesian women typically have 2 complaints about contraceptive pills: that they make them fat, and that they interfere with sexual pleasure. Many of them believe that tongkat ali keeps them both slim and
interested in sex (tongkat ali will not override the contraceptive effect of pills, though).

The dosage recommendation for women is to take about half as much as men.

While tongkat ali can raise libido in women dramatically, there is no use of it as a date rape
drug. Because of its extremely bitter taste, it cannot be mixed secretly into drinks.

MEASURING QUANTITIES

If you obtained our loose extract powder in pouches and want to measure exact quantities, you will need a scale. If you want to order a cheap but exact scale, you can do so through the website www.saveonscales.com. There are other sites with equal or even better offers.

On the other hand, whether your dosage is 0.8 gram or 1 gram or 1.2 gram of our 1:50 extract, or a 0.6 gram or 0.9 gram of our 1:200 extract, does not make a difference in principle. It’s not that 1 gram of 1:50 extract would be an efficient dosage, and 0.8 gram not.

It’s just like with coffee or tea. People do not use a scale to measure 3 gram per cup, but just take approximate amounts, based on their experience. In the case of tongkat ali, it’s a tip of a teaspoon.

Of course, not all teaspoons are the same size. If we use our own standard kitchen teaspoons, a heaped teaspoon is about 7 gram (too large a dose). A levelled teaspoon is about 2 gram, so slightly less than a leveled teaspoon would be a single standard dose.

MIXING EXTRACT

If you have obtained loose tongkat ali extract (not capsules), it is best to dissolve your dose in half a cup of tepid water and then swallow it in one go. Because of the bitter taste, many people prefer to take a bite or two of some food right afterwards.

Obviously, if you obtained capsules, you do not have to worry about the taste, and how to best get the tongkat ali down.

If you obtained loose extract and cannot “stomach” the taste, you can buy empty capsules in pharmacies anywhere in the world. Suitable capsules sizes are 00 (larger) and 0 (smaller). You can fill capsules easily by hand, though they won’t be filled entirely if you do not use equipment. If they are filled by hand, 0 size capsules hold about 150 mg of our 1:50 extract,
and 00 size capsules about double as much. Our 1:200 extract is about 30 percent heavier than the 1:50 extract.

CHIPPED ROOT AND ROOT POWDER (AS OPPOSED TO EXTRACT)

Tongkat ali chipped root and root powder are intended to be boiled as a tea. It is not advisable to consume the root powder raw, or to fill it into capsules. We do want to put emphasis on this, as root powder is commonly sold over the Internet by US-based distributors (in pouches or as capsules) … without advice that it must be boiled; raw tongkat ali is likely to cause diarrhea.

A standard dosage of tongkat ali tea is prepared from 50 to 100 gram of chipped root or root powder, boiled for 30 minutes. A first-day dosage should be half of a standard dosage.

Extract does NOT have to be boiled.

Some of our packages include chipped yellow root and / or chipped black root. The black chips and the yellow chips are from the same roots, though the black parts are considered more potent.

We include chipped and powdered root in our trial packages in part because we would like to educate users. Tongkat ali is a new herbal in the Western world, and this fact is exploited by some distributors who sell products that contain minimal, ineffective dosages.

Dried root powder is primarily cellulose; the active ingredients are a very small fraction. Thus, the amounts of root powder (or chipped root) used per single dosage are rather large (50 to 100 gram as standard dosage, boiled for 30 minutes).

I am on my third day and up to the full recommended 1600mg of 1:50 extract but still haven’t felt any effects.

The diet recommendations are difficult to stick to, hope all that meat doesn’t clog up all my arteries with cholesterol!!

Heck, I use 3200mg (3.2g) of Tongkat Ali a day. I didn’t start feeling the effects until about 2000mg+. I lift weights on a daily basis, so maybe that has something to do with it.

BTW, good post on what to eat during TA use. I never found that info on Sumatra Pasak Bumi’s site.

As for meat, I’d stick with very lean ground beef (use paper towels to soak up the fat before eating), chicken, and hard boiled egg whites.

Originally Posted by GrowingPains
There is no way it can taste worst that pure L-Arginine powder. That has to be the worst tasting stuff I’ve ever had and I’ve been taking all kinds of things for years in conduction with my bodybuilding.

I would imagine that the people that TA isn’t working on must be a function or strength of dose or amount. Yohimbe is the same way. You must vary the dosage to get it right.

With L-Arginine I was up to about 6 grams a day before any REAL effects happened for me. Some research showed upwards of 10-15 grams a day of L-Arginine was needed.

Everyone will be different, take more if you can afford it.

CEE (Creatine Ethyl Ester) is worse than straight L-Arginine and Tongkat Ali extract is A LOT worse than CEE. I put a capsule of Tongkat Ali in about a 1/2 gallon of water and it was still strong. It upset my stomach. When I take CEE and L-Arginine, I’ll take them with a minimal amount of water and take it like a shot.

But, I do agree that Arginine is pretty bad. It smells exactly like cum LOL!

Back when I was doing L-Arginine, I found that if I mixed it in grape juice, it really neutralized the taste and made it a lot easier to take.

Originally Posted by ShyMplsMale
CEE (Creatine Ethyl Ester) is worse than straight L-Arginine and Tongkat Ali extract is A LOT worse than CEE. I put a capsule of Tongkat Ali in about a 1/2 gallon of water and it was still strong. It upset my stomach. When I take CEE and L-Arginine, I’ll take them with a minimal amount of water and take it like a shot.

But, I do agree that Arginine is pretty bad. It smells exactly like cum LOL!

Man CEE is a waste of time from my experience. I keep finding myself taking just the plain ol micronized CREAPURE powder with terrific results…LOL But again everyone different, but it suits me fine that I can use the cheap powder and it work like a champ.

Weights everyday.. mmm gave that up years ago. 3 days a week and I can get as big as I want, of course I’m 40 so its easier for me to bulk up and I’ve been doing this for 20 years.

Haven’t tried any TA yet. Maybe its time to try some and see, but right now I’m on Animal Stak2 and it has Longjack and others in it. You cycle it for 21 days ( IE 21 packs of pills in a can ) and then off. Probably one of the strongest TEST builders out there. In fact they have an Animal Stak-M for people who are not allowed to have pro-hormones in their blood when tested.

As soon as I finish this cycle I’ll get some TA and see.


TEN COMMANDMENTS The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a Courthouse? You cannot post "Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" and "Thou Shall Not Lie" in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians...It creates a hostile work environment.

Pumper for a while got to the square dick 7X7 , hanging now 7-2010

Originally Posted by Formula1
Back when I was doing L-Arginine, I found that if I mixed it in grape juice, it really neutralized the taste and made it a lot easier to take.

Hell the powder I had , nothing covered he taste up, not even V-8 juice. Of course I was taking over 6 grams a day. The free form powder seemed to work way better than the pills.

I’m sure the same can be said about TA, the free form stuff should be taken not the pills IMO.


TEN COMMANDMENTS The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a Courthouse? You cannot post "Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" and "Thou Shall Not Lie" in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians...It creates a hostile work environment.

Pumper for a while got to the square dick 7X7 , hanging now 7-2010

Originally Posted by ShyMplsMale
CEE (Creatine Ethyl Ester) is worse than straight L-Arginine and Tongkat Ali extract is A LOT worse than CEE. I put a capsule of Tongkat Ali in about a 1/2 gallon of water and it was still strong. It upset my stomach. When I take CEE and L-Arginine, I’ll take them with a minimal amount of water and take it like a shot.

But, I do agree that Arginine is pretty bad. It smells exactly like cum LOL!

Try it in a shot of vodka.


(12/5/2008) BPEL: 7.75" EG: 5.75" BSFL: 8.1" FL: 5" FG 4.25"||New Goal: NBPEL: 8" EG: 6"

Technique: 95% Wet Jelqing, 5% Low Vacuum Pumping

Photos Journal

What about this product?
Eurycoma 1500 Ex Eurycoma Longfolia Aka Tongkat Ali 60 Capsules 1500mg from Scifit

they claim that is 100% pharmaceutical grade 750mg/capsule and its cost is about 20bucks…anybody try it?

Originally Posted by ShyMplsMale
Heck, I use 3200mg (3.2g) of Tongkat Ali a day. I didn’t start feeling the effects until about 2000mg+. I lift weights on a daily basis, so maybe that has something to do with it.

BTW, good post on what to eat during TA use. I never found that info on Sumatra Pasak Bumi’s site.

As for meat, I’d stick with very lean ground beef (use paper towels to soak up the fat before eating), chicken, and hard boiled egg whites.


What was the effect that you noticed first when it started working?

1 week of taking it and I’m still waiting for my balls to throb. Might increase the dose tomorrow.

I don’t have a full kitchen at the moment, all I have is a microwave. Unless I eat it raw, it’s not such a good idea to by fresh meat. I am managing to eat a 90% meat diet - it’s quite enjoyable and mixed with monkey nuts it hasn’t made me constipated. :)

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