supplements aiding in PE?

i would like to know if Tribulus Terrestris is helpful in PE, and if it is Safe for the body, i know Yohimbe makes me feel wierd, my heart i think speeds up and i dont like that feeling.

Greetings, SoonToBeHappier.
I’m a newbie to Thunder’s Place but I may be able to help you out here from the little I know.

Answers to your questions:
Is it helpful in PE? It very well could be, especially if you are testosterone deficient. (And with something like 50% of the population above 28 experiencing sub-normal testosterone levels it’s entirely possible you are.)

Is it safe? When used properly, most definitely. Much like PE though I would suggest starting slowly and building upwards.

From the ‘More Than You Wanted To Know’ department:
First off, let me state that I’ve not used Tribulus Terrestris for PE. I have however done some fairly extensive research on it for bodybuilding during my 2 years of working at General Nutrition Centers. (I’m one of those odd folks that enjoys research and learning.)

Tribulus Terrestris is an herbal extract, it is NOT a pro-hormone. The active components of Tribulus Terrestris are steroid saponins of furostanol type, primarily protodioscin and protogracillin. Furostanol type saponins are basically plant hormones. Amazingly, they appear to work in humans as well as plants, if not exactly in the same way. The purpose of taking Tribulus is to raise serum testosterone levels. (Testosterone in the bloodstream.)

How does Tribulus work? Tribulus uses the plant hormones to directly stimulate the body to create more Luteinizing Hormone, LH for short. LH is the hormone that tells the body to make testosterone. That’s all there is to it.

Now, what does all that mean for PE? Well, in the basic medical description of testosterone it does 2 major things that would be considered important to someone doing PE.

1. Testosterone speeds recovery time from injury/stress. (This means you could work out far more vigorously than you normally would, get up the next day and feel 100% refreshed because your body has repaired all the damage.)
2. Testosterone stimulates the penis and testes to grow. (This is why the penis and testes grow during puberty. Males get a huge rush of testosterone during puberty.)

Arming yourself with that knowledge it would be a fairly good guess that if used correctly as part of a supplementation program, Tribulus Terrestris could assist considerably in realizing gains from PE. (Note that I did not say 100% for sure. I said COULD.)

Tribulus raises LH levels, LH causes more Testosterone to be produced by the body, you benefit from the additional testosterone.

Some notes about Tribulus. Many people who consider taking it will also ‘stack’ it with two pro-hormones, DHEA and Androstenedione. The logic is Tribulus stimulates LH production and DHEA and Androstenedione give the body more of the necessary precursors so that it has what it needs to make the testosterone. For bodybuilding, the generally accepted dosage is something like 1500mg Tribulus, 100mg DHEA, 100mg Androstenedione used for 2 weeks in a 6-week cycle. (2 weeks on, 4 weeks off.)

Should you choose to go this route, BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL. There are negative side effects associated with higher than normal levels of testosterone in the body. If continued for too long it is possible to inadvertently shut down the body’s normal mechanisms for creating Luteinizing Hormone/Testosterone. In addition, there is a pathway in the body for the conversion of serum testosterone to serum estrogen. (Called ‘The Estrogenic Reflex’ by some.)

Ever hear of bodybuilders speaking of ‘Bitch Tits’? That’s because someone has flooded their system with a huge amount of testosterone and the body has reflexively converted some of it to estrogen. As a result, a man can, and will, grow breasts and experience various other negative side effects. (i.e. Raising of voice, shrinking of the penis and testes. Basically the opposite of what you want.)

Otherwise, if you chose to NOT ‘stack’ Tribulus with some of the various pro-hormones it’s pretty much widely accepted that there are very few, if any, side effects. Even though your body has higher than normal levels of LH, the body will only create as much testosterone as it has sufficient precursors for and there are no known negative side effects to higher than normal LH levels. (I’d have to do additional research to be 100% positive on that statement but I’m about 99% certain it’s accurate.)

What follows is a quote of some of the research that has been done on Tribulus. Finding the actual research page is difficult as so many sites simply mention the research yet do not provide links to it. Damn them! With some dedicated searching on a good engine I imagine it can be found. Anyhow, here’s the quote.

That’s about all the info I have on Tribulus Terrestris. Hope it was helpful to you. I’d be happy to share anything else I can if you like. (Notes about Herbal Standardization and what it’s important to look for, dosage thoughts, etc.)

Final note: I am not a Doctor. I am a Massage Therapist with a love of learning all things related to health.

Best of luck to you,
Darklin Sithas

Hey Darklin,

Great first post !

Welcome to the forum. I have an idea you are going to get very busy here in this forum.

ThunderSS,
Thank you very much. Just tossing my small amount of knowledge into this great pool here to see what grows. (And hoping that my penis winds up in that list.)

Awesome job on setting up these forums. Found the link to here from the PJ forums and am loving the learning here.

Best to you,
Darklin Sithas

I am a new member and it’s great to be a part of your community. Just thought I would start on a good note. I heard from another forum that several members are using AndroGel to jumpstart there gains and have been rather successful with regular use. PE’ing one day then putting on the gel after the work-out and not doing anything for another 24 hours to promote healing and growth. Another safety meausure to prevent to much testerone is to put on a pair of underwear and stick the penis through. Then apply the gel, dry it with a hairdryer then put another pair of underwear on over that so that the penis does not come in to contact with the testicles to avoid to much testerone build-up. This is what the members have done and have beed quite successful at gains.

I have been unable to obtain an RX of AndroGel as of yet and have purchased a tube of Testroxin Gel and would like to proceed with everything above as well as the procautions with double underwear to prevent exccess testerone build-up in my system. My question is it safe to use Testroxin directly on the penis to try and create gains every other day after pe’ing and being safe to prevent it from coming in contact with my testicles in your opinion?

Welcome Clk,
Answer to your question:

At a cursory glance I imagine it should be safe as long as you are very careful and don’t overuse it. Maybe an application once every 3 or 4 days, which is the suggested usage on the various sites I looked at. You could also consider cycling it. (I’ll say more about that if you like but I’m not going to put that info here as my answer is already going to be a big one.)

As I suggested with Tribulus above, and as you’ll see me suggest with ANY supplement intended for boosting testosterone, start out VERY slowly. Increase VERY slowly. Find what works for you but do it SLOW. (Don’t want to wind up looking like your mother now do you?)

From the “More Than You Wanted To Know” department:
Having no personal experience with this product or AndroGel, which is a actual medical drug as opposed to Testroxin’s herbal ingredients, I’m going to have to answer purely from scientific info on this one.

A quick search of Testroxin Ingredients on Google turned up the recipe used, though it didn’t state amounts.

I’ll give you a quick breakdown of each thing. (And tell you why I’m doing so in a moment.)

SD Alcohol - Specially Denatured Alcohol. Carrier substance. Pretty good for most transdermal products. (BTW Transdermal means absorbed through the skin.)

Deionized Water – Carrier Substance. Water generally isn’t absorbed through the skin amazingly well. However, it does get absorbed slowly. Using Deionized Water mixed with SD Alcohol helps evaporate the water plus helps with transdermal absorption. (If you’ve ever used those waterless hand sanitizers they act almost the same way. Deionized Water and SD Alcohol when put into an oxygen rich environment, air, evaporates quickly.)

Sodium Acrylate/Sodium Acryloyldimethyl Taurate – Gelling Agents. These absorb large amounts of a solution and store it in a gel form.

Isohexadecane – Synthetic Hydrocarbon Emollient. Used to soften the skin to allow greater absorption.

Polysorbate 80 – Nonionic Surfactant. Used to reduce the surface tension of a liquid to allow greater absorption.

Still with me? Good, cause here’s where we actually get to some good stuff. :)

Androstenedione – Hormonal Precursor to Testosterone. Androstenedione (Andro for short) is one metabolic conversion step away from Testosterone. That means your body only needs to do one little thing to convert Andro to Testosterone. This is where the testosterone boost of the product comes from. The “active” component as it were.

Progesterone – Hormone. Can be converted to Testosterone and has been reported to reduce negative side effects normally associated with higher than normal levels of testosterone in the body. This however has not been clinically studied to my knowledge.

Phenoxyethanol – Chemical Preservative. Used to increase shelf life of a product.

Di-Indolemethane –Estrogen Metabolant. This is the first time I’ve heard of this substance. It appears to assist in the breaking down (catabolism) of estrogen in males. Most likely this is in the product to negate any actual conversion from testosterone to estrogen, thus avoiding the side effects. Big thank you for bringing this to my attention, Cik. Going to have to research this more.

Grapefruit Seed Extract – Tons of stuff. There are a billion reasons to throw Grapefruit Seed Extract into just about everything. It has many benefits.

Liposomes – Special Fats. Very hard to explain in small terms what these do. I’ll try though. Basically they create little tiny bubbles of fat and trap substances inside themselves. Like tiny pills but with a very minor surface tension. These assist in transport through the skin.

Chrysin – Anti-Estrogen Compound. Somehow this herb appears to reduce the ability of the body to convert testosterone to estrogen. I imagine it was added for much the same reason Di-Indolemethane was, however this uses a different mechanism than DIM, thus creating a double pronged attack on the estrogen front.

Whew that was long winded.

Now why did I explain all of that to you? For your own education of course! Now that you know what everything in the product is it’s not nearly as frightening. Remember, knowledge is power!

It appears, from everything I’ve read on the various ingredients, that this product has the chance to actually do what it claims, at least partially. I don’t believe the hype about a 357% increase in testosterone but I imagine you will experience an increase.

It also appears to have a goodly amount of things to reduce or prevent testosterone-to-estrogen conversion.

An increased boost of testosterone with minimal conversion to estrogen would be considered good in my opinion.

Will it help with PE? The jury is still out on it but now that you know what you’re dealing with, you can give it a (well)educated try and see what happens.

Be sure to let us know your results.

Best of luck to you,
Darklin Sithas

wow dude, all this from a massage therapist :) quite knowledge you sure your not a doctor?!? heh no offense intended im truly impressed by your know-how. id like to hear any more if you can write, E-mail soulmatrox@yahoo.com

Thank you,

SoonToBeHappier,
Thank you and you’re welcome. I’ll take the doctor comment as a compliment. :)

I’ll happily answer any questions I can either via the PM function here or openly in the forums. (The nice thing about open in the forums is everyone who wants to, gets the chance to learn.)

I don’t check my email very much so that’s generally not the best way to get ahold of me. However, since I’ve found these boards I frequent them quite often, on the order of 3 or 4 times a day.

Feel free to fire away and I’ll answer to the best of my ability. :D

Best to you,
Darklin Sithas

I appreciated your long and researched reply on the subject. You are a very helpful M.D. and I know your time is valuable. So I want to thank you personally for your concern and courosity on the subject of testosern.
Myself I had some concerns as well especially sence I am using antidepressants to control muscle spasms in my esofogis after having my second lapriscopic proceedure for a nussian full wrap (hiatle hernia) to control reflux to the esofigis. This raised some concerns being on an antidepessant and taking a boost Gel of Testoseran after PE’ing to kick start my gains.
For the others who are not aware of our first conversation. I am a new member from another forum and in my forum the other members are using AndroGel to kick start there gains and it is working. The members are gaining up to 1 and a half inches a month in both length and circumference. Everyone is trying to use it but you need a Doctors RX to get the prescription AndroGel which is a testerone you rub on your penis every other day after a PE session which causes your penis to both heal and grow like in puberty to get increased gains after an aggressive work-out.
I will keep you posted and let you know if it works for me and here is a link from WebMD where I did some reasearch on the subject. Maybe it will help you and others that might be interested.

WebMD - Better information. Better health.{5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

Thanks, Again

Darklin sinthas, firstly i wanted to say good posting

Darklin sinthas said “testosterone speeds recovery/stress (this means you can work out more vigorously than you normally would ,get up the next day and feel 100% refreshed because your body has repaired all the damage”

The question is how much would you need to see these effects

Darklin sintas said “testosterone stimulates the penis and testes to grow(this is why the testes and penis brow during puberty, males get a huge rush of testosterone during puberty”

Testosterone is stored in your testes and this is why they grow during puberty.Also if its testosterone that makes your dick grow then steroid users would have huge penises not small ones like everyone thinks, right.Steroid users also get huge rushes of testosterone, professional bodybuilders take huge loads of steroid stakes for years and years.

Tribules on its own will not cause bitch tits beacuse it stimulates natural production through LH hormone unlike steroids which are synthetic.Steroid users get bitch tits (Bitch tits=gynocmastia=hard breast tissue usually around the nipple area, not to be confused with soft fat )because they are pumping in huge amounts of testosterone .The body responds by shutting off natural production,the bodt says hey, iv got so much of it i no longer need to produce it, so when they come off the juice abruptly or not there natural testosterone levels drops and aromatisation acures which causes estrogen to be produced( the female hormone ) and this is what leads to bitch tits and shrinkage of the testes not the penis.

250-750mg is the suggested dosage, im currently taking 1 312mg twice daily.Make sure to cycle off 3-6 weeks max, no supplement should be taken continuously with protein and vitamins as the exception.

Hi there, Jelqking.
Lemme see if I can answer your questions and comments.

The answer is a bit complex. Every human being is different when it comes to hormonal balance. My notes are failing me at the moment but I remember reading somewhere that some people see a significant boost in recovery with as little as a 10% increase in free serum testosterone levels. Others take much more. With each individual it is a ‘try-and-see’ thing and as I’ve stated numerous times, BE CAREFUL AND TAKE IT SLOW!

Testosterone is produced and metabolized in the testes as well as in the adrenal glands. It has not been proven that testosterone alone will promote penis growth. However, if you’ll remember from above, my quote was speaking strictly from a medical standpoint. The textbook definition of testosterone states that at puberty, due to the huge rush of various hormones, the primary of which is testosterone, the penis grows.

The reason that bodybuilders and people who take testosterone supplements generally do not have large genitals is due to the so-called Estrogenic Reflex that I spoke of above. When the body senses higher-than-normal levels of testosterone in the bloodstream it activates various protiens that convert the testosterone directly to estrogen. (Also called aromitization as you pointed out.)

We’re both basically saying the same thing. Just using different terminology. :)

Now, why could testosterone help with PE? Primarily because of the recovery effect. If you can do a grueling PE workout and by the next day be back to 100% than you can workout more often and more vigorously. The more often you work out, the more gains you’ll generally realize.

Gains occur during recovery. Speed recovery and you will speed gains.

That’s the logic behind what I was saying above.

Thanks for your insightful comments, Jelqking.

Namaste,
Darklin Sithas

I disagree about testosterone making your peace bigger. I have played with all types of test throughout my late teens and early twenties. Their are forms of testosterone which do not aromatize at all.( Equipoise, primobolan, winstrol, finaject,masteron etc. ) These are solely androgenic steroids. I have done some of these by themselves, and my dude never changed one bit. However, I have made a previous post about Growth Hormone, and wonder if that would be beneficial? What do you think?

I’ve seen the “bodybuilder doesn’t grow a huge penis” statement many times, though I’ve never seen anyboody consider the following (which may or may not be a factor, though certainly worth consideration):

1. Bodybuilders are generally interested in improving their skeletal muscle mass, and they train hard in order to create a ‘need’ for the body to grow and repair. Generally they do not pay attention to smooth muscle or to training PE style. If they took testosterone and didn’t train at all, I suspect their training goals may never be realized.

2. Someone using say Androgel will make one ‘therapeutic’ dose (sachet)last for about 3-4 sessions. Done EOD that would be 6-8 days. However, this is applied directly to the penis so any receptors there get first option. Even if a bodybuilder is injecting 1000mg per week, when circulating around a 200lb+ body, the relative doses in the penis would not be that high. In effect I’m suggesting that even though the Androgel application is a minor dose, in localized receptor saturation terms it could be astronomical. If you were to try to achieve the same amount by injection, you could be talking 30-50grams per week(?), which I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that it might kill you.

Has anyone used the “enlaregel” ?

I still have a bottle of Yohimbe that I won’t take because it makes me feel like I’m about to have a heart attack! It is like drinking 5 cups of coffee and it just ruins my day. Everytime I think, oh, I’ll give it a shot and wish I never took that damn stuff. Just me though.