study(ies) or data availability

ok fellas - does anyone know of any ongoing “clinical” studies on supplements (not just ‘penis pills’) and their relationship to “performance” (size enhancement, etc)?

i am interested in reading research protocols and results (if such exist) … as a biologist/chemist & one who carefully studies what he uses in the way of nutriceuticals, (etc) i tend to be wary of non-clinical “results.”

also - can anyone tell me why the makers of these supposedly great “penis pills” will not shre clinical data or “studies” with those who inquire? i don’t buy the crap about “protecting” the formulae, as they are all pretty much the same anyway.

thanks for the great site … i have learned quite a bit since joining.

(wish i could say the same about “quite a bit” & my dick)

alex (wan2Bbig)

Alex: I have been taking Saw Palmetto for prostate & urinary health although my prostate is healthy and each year way below normal range being 63 have that checked each year.
Men’s Health(May 2002) issue said that L-Arginine claims it used by cells in our artery walls to manufacture nitric oxide-a molecule responsible for relaxing the smooth muscle of you penis, resulting in increased blood flow. Also Ginkgo Biloba claims improves blood flow in the body, including, supposedly, the penis. Research proves that it does increase blood flow to the brain,no studies have shown that it will do same to penis., if problem is psychological may help. Androstenedione and dhea boosts libido by increasing testosterone. Yohimbe acts on the area of the brain that controls arousal.
ON personal note I had no problem with strong erections they have just gotten stronger, occur more often and last longer since PE and eating healthy and doing about 3 or 4 sets of sit ups each night.

Question——Did any of you guys heard of or tried PINACLE pills
for enlargement?

thanks poppa - good info & i do use these … i try to avoid yohimbe in a non-formulated (combined) form as i have had bouts of prostatitis as a result … otherwise i have used all the above & more.

i am still wondering about studies or readable data on studies done. there just does not seem to be much out there.

in addition - anyone know why “penis pills” we see on the web are so expensive (i dont believe the crap about “superior ingredients,” “selective clientele” and/or “manufacturing costs”) as i have seen many products in health food and neutraceutical publications at far less cost than what is foisted on us out there in web land (pilgrim, atkins, etc) … responses???

Ah, could it have something to do with greed??

Maybe deardoc.hlthnet.com or https://www.mc.duke.edu/hdevil

can help you with your questions—-Wan2Bbig Poppa

Alex,
I don’t know of any ongoing “clinical” studies for the purpose of determining efficaciousness of dietary supplements in the realm of sexual performance enhancement. Nine out of ten times, no company with enough money to institute an actual clinical trial will ever do so for dietary supplements. The why of this was summed up by ThunderSS very effectively. Greed.

If I am a corporation and I want to institute a good clinical trial (double blind, placebo controlled, etc.) of a dietary supplement and release the results to the general public, then not only am I paying for it for my own benefit, and believe me, the cost for a clinical trial can be amazingly high, I’m footing the bill so that every Johnny-come-lately can benefit from my results as well.

It happens all the time, some company actually institutes a clinical trial and releases the results to the GP. Within a week, you’ll see every supplement knockoff out there quoting the trial results and doing everything in their power, aside from actually claiming it, to make you think that their product is the one that was used in the trial.

So what do you do if you want to have the banner of an effectiveness trial under your belt but don’t want to spend on average 15 thousand dollars and let everyone and their third cousin see the results? You just do a “generic” trial. Have 10 friends come over. Give them samples of your supplement. Check back a couple weeks later and get the results then say, “Look! We did a trial on this and OMG it worked for 9 out of 10 participants!!!!” Just don’t tell anyone that only 10 people participated…

Another reason not to do clinical trials, what if you just spent 8 years researching a product and putting together the formulation only to find out in an actual clinical trial that it doesn’t do a damn thing? You’ve just squandered an insane amount of money for nothing. So why run the risk of proving your product is junk by actually doing a clinical trial?

Anyway, the short of that long-winded answer, I don’t know of any going on at present and somehow I doubt you’ll see any of actual clinical level in the near future.

However, I’m with you. I’d love to read some actual clinical trial papers on a good many supplements.

Best to you,
Darklin Sithas

thanks to all who have replied —- thunder, you are basically right … i checked my local stores (health hut & whloe foods in lawton okla) and the both have “supplements” with the EXACT ingredients listed in most of these “penis pills” (and one even has more that the usual amount) and the average cost for a hefty 90 day supply (1 per day) was $22.00!

for you other guys - i am glad that you have such an interest, and darklin - your comments are very accurate indeed. having worked in clinical areas and in REAL scientific research, it is a tedius, time consuming and EXPENSIVE process. one has to look at mny “results” in order to get one that works - if any at all.

that is why i have remained and do remain unsold on “penis pills.” they all share (1) a basically similar formula, (2) similar dosages required, (3) for similar times frmes and (4) all claim to be “the best.”

NOT SO, McGEE!!!

keep me posted - and keep me encouraged … dam it is taking a LOOOOONNNGGGGGGGGG TIME to see any change …

thanks

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