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I need to hear from people who really know supplements

Originally Posted by 7i667
Yeah, actually I just reread previous posts and noticed.

Sorry islord, you stated fairly clearly where does that come from. :)

I don’t know what you mean, but I’ll take it for good.

Originally Posted by islord
To 7i; I would never give advices for things which can be harmful, as you could read I said something about caffeine and immediately I put an advice, cause I know caffeine can be dangerous for some people. And, for example, I’ve seen lot of members giving tips of how to use steroids or other serious supplements (I don’t know if supplement is the right name), and I think it would be weird that some of them are specialists. Going further, when I posted about FS side effects in this forum “somebody” suggested me Proviron, and as I can see he wasn’t a real specialist.. No comment about this, ok?


It was I not somebody B-) who wrote proviron, that wasn’t suggesting usage tho, I actually said it would be bad idea. But go ask endocrinologist would proviron help in finasteride induced libido loss, again this is not use advice, medical or other.
Again you seem to misinterpret intent, if I express it in a manner not clear enough - Well, let me know, but I’m really trying.

Originally Posted by islord
I agree with you about using multiple sources, I think all of us here do this and, if you really have a better one and you find an opinion which is supported by more people than mine..

In this case the thing is that somebody -our friend Marley, almost we forgot him- is having doubts about taking a vitamin complex, and he wants an opinion of somebody who knows about supplements. Ok: I’m not an expert -like 99% here- and I tell him what I’ve read and what I think is logic, and I believe that a vitamin complex must be taken if it’s really necessary, not just because “you think” it will be good for you. I support this explanation in this article, in other people’s experience, in some other things I’ve ever read in the past and in my logic thinking of “only take X if you really thing you’ll need it” and “health is also business”.

You thing I’m wrong? Bravo 7i, I’m down with you. Tell us which source you’ve got and what you believe about vitamin complexes, so we can help our friend Marley to take a decision and finally can say he decided A or B but having enough information. That’s why this is a forum, an open way to share ideas and knowledge.. And in my personal opinion it’s also a place where moderators should be the most serious and diplomatic ones.


Well then, for that reason I don’t write what I read and believe in, and certainly won’t advice anything unless it’s covered in wiki :)

I had issues with some of your statements in original post and addressed them, in a matter providing least ground for argument. O:-) But you took offense, even took it to national level :inlove: :angel:

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No ass biting ThunderSS, maybe you love this kind of practice in your private life… but I’m sorry, it’s not my style.

You try and help a brother out and he comes back and accuses you of having a deviant private life. Sheeesh!


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Haha Thunerss its cool, I’ve got a thing for ass’s to. No but really, appreciate the help islord and 7, Im going to continue not taking the supplements I have but not the multi-vitamin. Any other information or answers from anyone else or anyone has already replied?


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I have been taking supplements for years. Since I was 12. The fish oil will certainly help with help, most Americans are depleted of such omega fatty acids, but I do not know that it will help with growth. My experience is that most supplements are like a steroid. You are only and extremely good performer while you are one them. So sure take them and get better, but there are big health risks. No to say that anything you take is going to damage you forever, that is your decision, but I seriously doubt that they will have a permanent effect such as the exercises on the website will.

I can not speak for you, but I can give you my opinion, and I do not think that it will make such a difference unless you tend to take these religiously for the next 50 years until you are so old that you do not care how big your unit is anymore. Also, some of them many not be for better, but worse.

Look at your diet and see if you already get enough of what you have decided to take. If so, why do you need More. What else does it do you you, but make your liver work More?

Originally Posted by 7i667
Again you seem to misinterpret intent, if I express it in a manner not clear enough - Well, let me know, but I’m really trying.

I had issues with some of your statements in original post and addressed them, in a matter providing least ground for argument. O:-) But you took offense, even took it to national level :inlove: :angel:

Ok dude, sorry if my reaction has been too offensive.

I find it strange that you list a whole load of supplements that you are taking that have some very sketchy scientific support, BUT balk at taking a simple Multi-vitamin!? :o

I think with any supplement regime I’d actually START with a multi vitamin/mineral tablet. Many supplements taken in isolation do not work at all or as efficiently as when in the presence of other micro nutrients.


01/OCT/2007: BPEPL: 7.00, Base Girth 5, Mid G: 4.5, Under glans G: 4.25.

01/NOV/2007: BPEPL: 7.25, Base Girth: 5.25, Mid G: 4.75, Under glans G: 4.50.

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Originally Posted by Saul Penmidden
I find it strange that you list a whole load of supplements that you are taking that have some very sketchy scientific support, BUT balk at taking a simple Multi-vitamin!? :O

I think with any supplement regime I’d actually START with a multi vitamin/mineral tablet. Many supplements taken in isolation do not work at all or as efficiently as when in the presence of other micro nutrients.

Yes I agree. All supplementation should start with a multivitamin/mineral first and foremost.
As far as those supplements go they all work for ED. Anything that increases circulation works in that regard Ginkgo and Arginine do this.
But there is a limit to this as well. You must end the practices that hinder health at the same time.
Drinking, eating too much, not enough physical activity. Herbs are not magic solutions they are little helpers.


Speak softly carry a big dick, I'm mean stick!

Originally Posted by kingpole
As far as those supplements go they all work for ED. Anything that increases circulation works in that regard Ginkgo and Arginine do this.

I disagree. If you said that ginkgo and arginine can be a help to some with ED, that would be a valid statement. There are lots of men with ED who get absolutely no response from either.


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avocet8

Originally Posted by avocet8
I disagree. If you said that ginkgo and arginine can be a help to some with ED, that would be a valid statement. There are lots of men with ED who get absolutely no response from either.

If ED is due to depression Golden root or possibly ginseng would help with that.
If it is due to diabetes definitely gensing and Ginkgo.
If it is due to high blood pressure then Green Tea could possibly help.
Arginine covers all of the conditions above. But erections begin at 4 grams of Arginine ketoglutarate.
Perhaps a combination for all of them are needed.

Example:

120 mg of standardized Ginkgo.
4 grams of AAKG.
1 gram of Green Tea Standardized
I have links on each of these herbs in other threads I started.
About all I could find on AAKG is Arginine in it’s original form which I don’t think is as effective as AAKG.

The FDA is never going to investigate the properties of supplements they are pawns to in the hands of the pharmaceutical industry. As long as drugs rule the nation natural supplementation will never be comepletely accepted by our goverment. So it is by testimony that you get this information. Studies for or against are bias.

Not everyone can afford Viagra or Levitra and for guys like me who have compromised kidney issues drugs are not an option.

So ginkgo may not work for some but perhaps a combination of the above would work.

Which brings me to this point do you think PE could help one avoid ED all together?


Speak softly carry a big dick, I'm mean stick!

Once upon a time, not so many years ago, most modern drugs and most refined supplements were not part of everyday life. Medicine was often in the form of herbs or folk remedies which had been proven to work over many centuries. These were not taken all the time, as many modern drugs and supplements are, but only when conditions required treating.

Although much of our modern food is grown with fertilisers, or hydroponically etc., and cannot pull useful micro-nutrients such as selenium from the soil, these can be replaced with little more than a decent full-spectrum vitamin/mineral supplement.

Claims that huge doses of single vitamins are necessary for our health are simply a modern fabrication. Claiming miraculous properties for vitamins or herbs may be valid in cases of certain diseases (no one is going to deny that someone with scurvy would not experience a miracle if given vitamin C), but to rely on these things for our health is to try to replace a healthy lifestyle and diet. Adopting a more healthful approach to life will avoid many modern diseases, especially things like early onset diabetes (rare in the past).

It is always better to look to the cause of problems than just trying to treat the symptoms. Saying that taking ‘x’ amount of this or that vitamin/mineral/amino acid may be valid as a short term fix, as a medicine for symptoms, but even then good links to well conducted studies should be researched before self medicating, unless, like in folk medicine, the remedy has been well proven over many years and is widely accepted as fact.

Too many people now try to tell us what we should be taking for a condition, without any experience of the condition they are ‘prescribing’ the remedy for. Unless someone posts valid links which you read and truly believe have been rigorously researched, and you have done your own investigations, and are sure it relates to your specific condition, please do not take any supplement just because a forum ‘want to be guru’ suggests it would be the solution to all your problems.


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These are good statements:

Originally Posted by kingpole
All supplementation should start with a multivitamin/mineral first and foremost.

Originally Posted by kingpole
Herbs are not magic solutions they are little helpers.

Originally Posted by firegoat
Once upon a time, not so many years ago, most modern drugs and most refined supplements were not part of everyday life. Medicine was often in the form of herbs or folk remedies which had been proven to work over many centuries. These were not taken all the time, as many modern drugs and supplements are, but only when conditions required treating.

Although much of our modern food is grown with fertilisers, or hydroponically etc., and cannot pull useful micro-nutrients such as selenium from the soil, these can be replaced with little more than a decent full-spectrum vitamin/mineral supplement.


I agree with all of the above.

Originally Posted by firegoat
Claims that huge doses of single vitamins are necessary for our health are simply a modern fabrication


I’d say that depends on how far it is taken and who is making the claims.

There is certainly evidence that there is such a thing as ‘too much of a good thing’ with regard to vitamins and herbals; some are even deadly if overdosed on. There are also interactions between herbal supplements that need to be looked out for, similar to drug interactions. You don’t simply want to load up on a bunch of herbals. Ultra high doses of Arginine in combination with a strong prescription of Viagra could possibly cause an unhealthy drop in blood pressure for example. It may not be a likely occurrence, but the possibility is there. It’s best to exercise caution therefore.

firegoat’s recommendation to look at the underlying causes of a condition is sensible and spot on, and I should make clear that I agree with the bulk of his post and the main ideas behind it.

However, I would say that there is evidence for something other than the FDA approved “Minimum Daily Requirement”. Dr. Andrew Weil has long been an advocate for an Optimum Daily Value program, which is based on age, environmental considerations, as well as personal habits (like smoking, fitness level, and pre-existing conditions like diabetes, etc.). For example, he recommends that city dwellers may well need more Anti-Oxidants than people who live in less bio-stressful country environments. He would not advocate that everyone take 8 grams of vitamin C - just certain folks.

I like Dr. Weil, because for the first few years of his career he was simply publishing books as to how people could eat better and live more healthfully. His web-site even had a “Vtamin Advisor” that asked questions about your lifestyle, history, and environment and then made recommendations based on those answers. These were certainly greater than the typical FDA guidelines, but they were conservative in that he didn’t over prescribe for the sake of it.

Also, nnlike Gary Null and other gurus, he was not hawking his own products; at least not for the first few years after his site first came in to existence. Now he has a product line, but he still provides the break downs of the vitamins so one is not obligated to his special formula. Mr. Null, while knowledgeable, has always been hustling for a buck and his product line doesn’t have detailed product break-downs (at least last I checked). He’s fond of the “proprietary blend” idea - which is pure marketing. So…buyer beware.

If one is interested in supplements, whether herbal or vitamin, it’s good to do a variety of reading and really try to sort out what’s real, what’s likely, and what’s hype. It’s also good to move conservatively and not rush to embrace all the claims that are made.

Arginine and Ginkgo are both good supplements - be advised that the typical recommended doses of these assume a healthy individual who is not taking certain kinds of prescription drugs or an abundance of other things. Fish oil is fine; it’s fairly well proven that we don’t get enough Omega 3s and 6s in a ‘normal’ diet and supplementing with this is not going interact with anything, unless you have an allergy. Fish oil supplementation is pretty much like eating fish - which you can also do.

Some supplementation is very beneficial. But don’t go hog wild.

Educate yourself.


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I just checked Dr. Weil’s website.

It seems now you can’t use the site’s vitamin advisor without entering an e-mail address.

I guess marketing conquers all.

Another one bites the dust. :(


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:

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