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Hard Gainers and Relaxin levels


Originally Posted by kristian69
Lab Man

My gains so far: FSL 2,3 cm while wearing the extender, EL 2 cm, EG + 2 cm (base). I don`t measure often.
Most of the gains came during the first 3-400 hours with the extender (almost 900 now), I was also doing jelks and stretches. I was using Metdystene, And Creatine during most of this time.

I have not stopped gaining, But it is a lot slower now, And I mostly gain girth now. I started taking Metdystene again 3 days ago, So I will report back to you if the gaining boosts from this.

There are a lot of members here that gain quite quickly in the beginning, But it seems to slow down a lot later on, But there are also some that continue to report good gains.

I have been wondering if I use to much tension now, And if that is why the gains has slowed down, And that is why I asked you about this. I actually read a thread on the jes forum where they wrote that the jes proto type had a max setting of 3000 gr, But they set it to 1500 gr on the production model to be on the safe side.
This was done to be sure that it did not hurt the nerves or vessels.

After what you wrote I don`t think that the tension is the problem.

And there are some good news for us :)

Monkeybar is devoloping a new head piece for the extenders, And I think it will be a lot better than what we have today! It is being tested now, And hopefully it won`t take to long before it is possible to buy it.

You can check out his thread about this, There are some pictures of his “old” type head piece there, And it looks really good compared to the loop and strap types.

Like you, I am looking forward to Monkeybar’s new head attachment.

I am still chasing a gain, here is my log so far, coming up to the 5th week of using my JES Extender -
(this is the second attempt to use the JES, 2 years ago I wore it for 12 weeks over the foreskin, with no results - this time I am wearing it under the foreskin behind the glans with wrap)

Average Daily Use -

- Week 1 / 4.00 hours
- Week 2 / 10.14 hours
- Week 3 / 10.35 hours
- Week 4 / 11.00 hours
- Week 5 / 12.75 hours
- Overall average usage per day 9.36 hours
- Total Number of hours 299.5 hours

Observations during my wear time are -

- Impossible to wear with out substantial wrapping
- Need to take regular breaks through out day
- Breaks first 3 hours of day are every hour
- Breaks from 3 hours to 12 hours are every 30mts
- Break duration no greater than 2mts
- Pain is mainly at the top centre of the sulcus
- Small area of broken skin just in front of top centre of sulcus. Blister bandage used to aid healing
- Penis demonstrates more extendibility in flaccid state
- Penis is hot after usage
- Pain greater if used in same day of ejaculation
- Ligaments can be slightly tender during use and after use
- No gains in girth or length. Slightly improved flaccid hang. Less likely to turtle.
- Libido no change
- No change in morning erections or quality of erections

Personal health through out -

-“excellent”; diet rich in vegetables, seeds, nuts, fish, egg whites, fruit. Exercise 4 to 5 times per week, jogging and weights.
- supplementation; multi vitamin, flax seed oil, whey protein, Neurozan, Ginkgo, Procaine GH3.

I have done small amounts of other PE techniques, not as much as I would like to though, jelqing, A-stretches, erect slow jelqing at light pressure, erect bends, ulis - maybe average of 2 times per week, no longer than 20 mts.

Hope your gains will continue and perhaps will be boosted by your supplement protocol. If after 12 weeks, I do not see any gains, then I will be changing my routine to include further chemical assistance (legally!). I have yet to decide which route this will be, as I want to be as scientific as I can about the optimum protocol.


kristian 69

I forgot to mention that my average tension over the last 5 weeks is estimated at 1000gr.



Based on my preliminary reading of the scientific literature, I am going to give a tentative nod to using relaxin as a PE supplement. However, as this hormone affects skeletal and cardiac muscle connective tissue, I would advise caution if you engage in resistance training. I will know more as I get farther into the literature.


Lab Man

You have a really impressive average there! You can actually wear it as much as the manual says, And only a very few are able to do that!

I agree with your observations, But I can wear it for much longer with out breaks (I think it takes a really long time to get used to wearing it), 2-3 hours before the first break, And then 1-1,5 hours between breaks,
Average tension 1200-1500 gr.

I have a friend here at Thunders, He has done a lot of PE with out any gains, He built his own extender, And he reported excatly the same as you after 300 hours: Better flaccid hang, But no gains in EL or FSL.
Suddenly he gained 0,7 cm in FSL and 0,5 cm in EL, This was after maybe 350 hours.
He also did manual stretching straigth down, for 3-5 min a few times a day.
Babbis also gained a lot after a long time.

So stay in there, Do not give up! I am sure that you will gain!

I am very interested in your choice of chemical assistance, So please let me know what you decide to use.


Many thanks for the encouragement, a gain would be inspirational!

I have a nice routine to get the maximum hours. I usually start around the 8.00am mark, until about 6.30pm, take a break to about 9.00pm, then get in the additional 2 to 3 hours. Of course this is helped by the fact that I work from home! However, it is not easy, but I am determined by my fascination to see if this will work!

It is interesting to note in your examples, that gains seem to come in spurts. Some medical studies, suggest there is a 6 week cycle to develop the integrity of new tissue and visibly notice results. I know a lot of guys in PE favour the micro-tears, stretching of ligaments, CC & CS expansion theories rather than new tissue growth, as the reason behind gains. Although, I believe all mechanisms are at work, I think there are good grounds for tissue growth actually occurring, particularly in endothelial and collagen rich areas.

Endothelial cells are known to proliferate under certain conditions, stress and hypoxia, to name the main ones. Collagen will equally show adaptation and laying down of new tissue under mechanical stress. What occurs for both tissue types is firstly, a realignment of cells to the direction of the force and then growth. Where Hypoxic conditions exist, endothelial cells are known to proliferate. Endothelial Cells are thought to then create a chain of events, through signaling to other cell types, by chemical mechanisms, such as “growth factors”. Therefore, logic prevailing, PE techniques such as clamping, create a hypoxic environment, any gains could be partly explained as new tissue growth.

You could postulate from this thread so far, that an ideal Extender PE environment for new tissue growth
could be -

- Clamping say at night; to create hypoxic conditions and stimulate endothelial tissue growth, collagen remodelling in expanded state.

- All day traction up to 12 hours, with hourly ramps in tension to circa 2500gr.

- “Edging” say every 2 hours, to keep penal tissue rich in DHT and prostaglandins, ideal chemical assistance to aid growth in penal tissue.

- Good physical & mental health, nutrition, sleep, to maximise endogenous levels of Testosterone.

- Discreet supplementation to maintain optimum free Testosterone levels with aromatisation inhibitors.

- Warmth to maintain tissue healing, optimum extendibility, vascularisation.

This does make sense, I will feel better with the theory when I see a gain!

Will keep you posted with any developments, hopefully soon!


Lab Man

Really hope that you see a gain soon.

Your average is still very impressive, Even if you work from home. I also work from my home office, But I am not able to get that high an average, I have some days with 10 hours, And some days with 2-3 hours.
I do not wear it in public or when I am with other people, I am afraid that they will notice it.

It feels like my gains also came in spurts, Almost over night, After a while with no gains, I would suddenly notice that I had to add bars on the extender to reach the same tension. I only measure when this happens.
So I am hoping for a new spurt now, After quite a while with no EL/FSL gains now, I only seem to gain girth.

I am not sure witch of the theories is the ones that makes the gains, But I have noticed a few things myself:

My penis is now attached lower on my body, And that indicates that I have stretched the ligaments, That would make the penis longer when standing/hold straight out, But it would not make the penis look longer when standing straight up.

I have had a big increase in base girth, And that could come from cell growth, pulling out thicker inner penis, Or micro tears.

I have also noticed that it looks longer when straight up, And that could be from pulling out inner penis, micro tears, Or cell growth.

Also I have an increase in girth, And that could come from micro tears, Cell growth, Or making the CC/CS capable of holding more blood inside (Balloon theory).

A bigger glans, And that could be from clamping the head with the loop (Balloon theory), Cell growth, Or micro tears.

I have a question for you about something that I have been thinking about: Why does it get easier and easier to wear the extender? I read in the PE surgery thread that when having the phallosan surgery, The body would make new blood vessels and nerves in the new tissue, Is this also happening when wearing the extender?
The reason for the pain is that circulation is partly cut of, And that the skin gets sore, So could it be that the body tries to get a better blood flow to the glans by building new blood vessels?
The skin gets stronger and thicker so that would explain that part of it getting more and more comfortable, But what about the circulation part? If this is what is actually happening, Then that would explain why it takes months to get comfortable with the thing?

It seems that you really know a lot about cell growth, And I find it really interesting to read your posts, And I am sure that a lot of other members feels the same, So keep posting your theories!

I doubt that the expander was situated subdermally, but just used to expand the skin, as they are in burn victims needing replacement skin.

Originally Posted by kristian69
I have a question for you about something that I have been thinking about: Why does it get easier and easier to wear the extender? I read in the PE surgery thread that when having the phallosan surgery, The body would make new blood vessels and nerves in the new tissue, Is this also happening when wearing the extender?

“Phallosan surgery” - what is that? Phallosan is as far as I know only an ADS not a form of surgery. Am I missing something?


“Phallosan surgery” That is actually quite funny :)

No, You are not missing something, Sometimes it gets a little complicated for me with all the medical expressions, And names for different products etc. In English.

I think it is called “dermal graft”, And that was what I ment to write, Sorry about that.


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