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Hard Gainers and Relaxin levels

“Papaverine is a potent, non-specific smooth muscle relaxant which increases smooth muscle intracellular adenosine 3’,5’-monophosphate (cAMP) by its action as a non-selective cAMP phosphodiesterase inhibitor, causing vasodilatation of penile vascular and sinusoidal smooth muscle.6 Papaverine has a relatively short plasma half-life (1-2 hours) and is extensively metabolised in the liver. After intracavernosal injection, the peak serum concentration is several times lower than after extracavernosal injection, suggesting that the corpus cavernosum is a separate pharmacokinetic compartment from which elimination of papaverine is much slower than from the systemic circulation.7

A meta-analysis of the largest published studies on the use of papaverine reports that it is effective in 53% of men with ED, as measured by the ability to produce an erection of sufficient rigidity for sexual intercourse8 (E1). However, the efficacy of ICI papaverine is limited by local adverse effects, principally priapism (in 7%)8 and intracavernosal fibrosis, presenting as penile deformity or curvature (reported in one study in 50% and 95%, respectively, of long term users).9 Fibrosis is related to poor injection technique, frequent injections and long term use. Because of these adverse effects, papaverine should be restricted to informed patients in whom other medications are ineffective. Papaverine hepatotoxicity is rarely a clinical problem and may manifest either as an increase in liver transaminase concentrations, which is relatively common (> 1%), or as a drug-induced hepatitis, which is rare (< 0.1%).10”
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues…on/mcmahon.html

Cavernous Neurotomy Causes Hypoxia and Fibrosis in Rat Corpus Cavernosum
http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi…stract/24/2/239

Inhibition of wound contraction by papaverine: in vitro analysis with a submucosal tissue model.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…3&dopt=Abstract

Effect of trapidil and papaverine on thrombocyte aggregation and phosphodiesterase activity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…0&dopt=Abstract

MX

Good links.


I CAN, I MUST, I WILL!

So let’s remember where we are at, so we do not get intimidated by the magnitude of the technical language that is flying around in these excellent links.

Let’s get the theory back into perspective in summary form -

-Traction such as an extender = constant force of biomechanical stress

- Constant force of Biomechanical stress = increase in tissue metabolism

- Increase in cellular tissue metabolism = receptiveness to chemical aid and potential for accelerated growth

Papaverine is potentially a candidate as the chemical aid, but I stress topically, and finely tuned to release in a finite rate over the period of stress, to give maximum endemic results We are avoiding the pitfalls of injections, systemic overspills by high dosages such as in ED treatment, and priapisms.

We are also looking at the possibility that some hard gainers could have below normal relaxin levels and it’s correlation to ligament/ soft tissue flexibility.


I CAN, I MUST, I WILL!

Other, but off the shelf, possible chemical candidates to assist growth whilst under traction -

- MSM
- Vitamin C
- Vitamin E
- Glucosamine
- Combinations of above in topical form

Just for starters….


I CAN, I MUST, I WILL!

Lab Man, MX, or other experts

There has been a few threads about the effects that testosterone migth have on PE, Conclusions seems to be that it would not have any effect on PE after puberty.

I have a question: What about pills that makes your body produce more testosteron on its own, Is it possible that this could have any effect on PE?

Originally Posted by kristian69
Lab Man, MX, or other experts

There has been a few threads about the effects that testosterone migth have on PE, Conclusions seems to be that it would not have any effect on PE after puberty.

I have a question: What about pills that makes your body produce more testosteron on its own, Is it possible that this could have any effect on PE?

Nice evolution of this thread kristian69.

I left a link in my “Fraud thread” for you and babbis. Check out the Andro Penis instructions. In there, it is actually promoting, that gains will be greater if you are on Testosterone treatment. Maybe not a throw away line?

Now I will go further, the actual androgen we require is DHT, this is the one that creates growth in penis tissues around about puberty. However there is a draw back after puberty, your penis will probably shrug it off, if you have normal levels. But this is where things change when a tissue is under stress, it is more receptive to localised chemical action because of an increase on overall metabolic rate. It is totally reasonable to say, that a topical solution of DHT, such as andractim could then be be recieved in a more positive way by this physiological state of stressed tissue. Caution here, DHT as sold in andractim come in 5%, 2% topical creams. I would advocate a strength far, far less than this. We do not want systemic uptake, which can give rise to other problems, we require a controlled delivery in tune with the increased metabolic rate produced by the extender stress.

The theory is that we keep everything at a minumum. We are only topping up the localised tissue with approriate chemical candidates in tune with the increase of metabolic rate. This is what I find exciting about extenders, they are creating the ideal conditions for chemcal assistance but at a subtle level, avoiding the dosages that create systemic side effects. Topical papaverine for example, as in the article posted earlier just cannot be compared to the problems you have at much higher injectable dosages, not to mention fibrosis at the injection site.


I CAN, I MUST, I WILL!

Lab Man

I have actually used a product that increases the production of testosteron, I am very querious to find out what you think about the ingrediens in this product, You know, Kind of getting an experts opinion.
Do you think that this product might help, in addition to using the extender?
I am pretty sure that it does increase the production of testosteron, I did notice a few things while I used it.

On the box it says:

5-metyl 7-methoxy isoflavone 400 mg
Beta Ecdystene (90% UV) 100 mg
7-isopropoxyisoflavone
(98% Ipriflavone) 50 mg
Dioscorea Deltoidea
Root extract 95% 500 mg
Zinc Gluconate 15 mg
Magnesium (gluconate) 400 mg
L-Theanine 250 mg
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine HCI) 4 mg
Avena Sativa Extract
(90% Stevioside) 1000 mg

Originally Posted by kristian69
Lab Man

I have actually used a product that increases the production of testosteron, I am very querious to find out what you think about the ingrediens in this product, You know, Kind of getting an experts opinion.
Do you think that this product might help, in addition to using the extender?
I am pretty sure that it does increase the production of testosteron, I did notice a few things while I used it.

On the box it says:

5-metyl 7-methoxy isoflavone 400 mg
Beta Ecdystene (90% UV) 100 mg
7-isopropoxyisoflavone
(98% Ipriflavone) 50 mg
Dioscorea Deltoidea
Root extract 95% 500 mg
Zinc Gluconate 15 mg
Magnesium (gluconate) 400 mg
L-Theanine 250 mg
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine HCI) 4 mg
Avena Sativa Extract
(90% Stevioside) 1000 mg

In simple terms, this chemcial assay is quiet typical of products that are engineered to unbind testosterone, making it more freely available in the blood. If it is doing it’s job, then I would say you are optimising your freely available testosterone levels whilst you are stretching. Not a bad thing if you have do a lot of excercise or under stress. This is certainly good for overall muscular development during excercise, muscles love testosterone. However, penal tissue loves DHT and there are some anti-DHT componenets in there. The picture gets very complex when you are looking into systemic increases of androgens. We want to be specific to the site concerned, the tissue under stress, bathing it in specific chemical aids that it will be receptive to.


I CAN, I MUST, I WILL!

Very interesting, Pretty cool to have a Lab man here :)

So this product is a good supplement if you are weigthlifting/bodybuilding (I kind of knew that already), But it will not have any positive effect on PE? Or maybe a negative effect?

You see I got my gains while using this product, and now the gains has slowed down a lot, So I was wondering if this had anything to do with my gains. If not, Then it must have been newbie gains, increase of bloodflow, better penis health etc.

Do you know of any supplements that has DHT in it, Or other things that might help?

Witch of the components is anti DHT?

What about creatine? It is supposed to bind more water in the muscles, Any chance it could do the same to the penis? (I also used creatine at the time I gained)

ThunderSS

Very long thread there, But it died out, So it seems that it was not working with the DHT cream.

Since paperavine comes from the opium poppy plant, it’s not like you’re going to be able to experiment with it yourself. Too bad since it looked so promising for foreskin restoration too.

Will reply soon………


I CAN, I MUST, I WILL!

Originally Posted by MDC

Since paperavine comes from the opium poppy plant, it’s not like you’re going to be able to experiment with it yourself. Too bad since it looked so promising for foreskin restoration too.

The question I would ask, is why did Papaverine proliferate tissue growth in the example cited here. I believe Vasodilation is the key here. So why not look at alternatives. Let’s start with off the shelf products -

- DMSO

- MSM

Again the point is, tissue under constant stress creates a unique environment for it to react to a host of potential chemical candidates to proliferare growth.


I CAN, I MUST, I WILL!


Last edited by ModestoMan : 09-24-2005 at .
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