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DHT precursors would be ineffective if there conversion enzymes are not abundantly present. Did you consider that?


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Quote
Originally posted by Jones8315
“bond becomes stable as DHT” ??? That makes no sense. Here is an analogy so you can understand ligand specific androgen activation through the electrostatic interactions with an ezyme:

A house is a cell. The lock is the receptor. To get in, you have two keys that randomly poke at the door. T is rusty key. DHT is a well lubed key. With random actions, which key will get in more times? DHT will. They both open the SAME door.

Yeah, but basically if you administer massive amounts of test (1+ gram/week) than you have a ton of “rusy keys” going into your door.

It doesn’t matter anyway, it’s what the hormones do once they are attached that is important. And that is where these two split off into different metabolic pathways.

Quote
Originally posted by Jones8315
DHT precursors would be ineffective if there conversion enzymes are not abundantly present. Did you consider that?

ok smart guy, let me post these studies once again and than you can answer your own question.

But, ah, yeah, I’ve considered it.

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1975 Jun;79(2):394-402 Related Articles, Links

In vivo uptake and metabolism of 3-h-5alpha-androstane-3alpha,17beta-diol and of 3-h-5alpha-androstane-3beta,17beta-diol by human prostatic hypertrophy.

Horst HJ, Dennis M, Kaufmann J, Voigt KD.

Tritiated 5alpha-androstane-3alpha,17beta-diol (3alpha-diol) and 5alpha-androstane-3beta,17beta-diol (3beta-diol) respectively were administered to patients with benign prostatic hypertrophy (bph) undergoing prostatectomy. In prostate and skeletal muscle homogenates and in plasma the total radioactivity content as well as the formation of metabolites were measured. Histological examination of each ectomized prostate was performed to evaluate the cellular composition of the tissue. After 3alpha-diol injection, a higher uptake of radioactivity in the prostate was obtained than after 3beta-diol. Within 30 min the 3alpha-isomer was very efficiently converted to 5alpha-DHT, while most of the 3beta-isomer remained unchanged. There was, however, also after administration of the 3beta-diol a substantial biconversion to 5alpha-DHT as has been confirmed by recrystallization to constant specific radioactivity. Only after 3beta-diol epiandrosterone was detected in small but significant amounts. 3alpha-diol administration resulted in distinct concentrations of 3beta-diol, whereas the conversion of 3beta-diol to the 3alpha-isomer was insignificant. When comparing the histological composition of the prostatic tissue with the accumulation of radioactivity and the formation of metabolites only a weak correlation between glandular structure and radioactivity uptake after 3alpha-diol administration could be revealed.

PMID: 49141 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Endocrinol 1975 Mar;64(3):529-38 Related Articles, Links

Binding and metabolism of 5alpha-androstane-3alpha, 17 beta-diol and of 5alpha-androstane-3beta, 17 beta-diol in the prostate, seminal vesicles and plasma of male rats: studies in vivo and in vitro.

Krieg M, Horst HJ, Sterba ML.

Binding of 5alpha-androstane-3alpha, 17 beta-diol (3alpha-diol) and 5alpha-androstane-3beta,-17 beta-diol (3beta-diol) in vivo and in vitro to the 100 000 g cytosol fraction of the rat prostate and seminal vesicles as well as to plasma was studied by agargel electrophoresis and sucrose density gradient ultracentrifugation and the results compared with the corresponding findings for 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (5alpha-DHT). The metabolism of 3alpha-diol and 3beta-diol was also investigated by thin-layer chromatography. The following results were obtained: (1) A specific binding of 3alpha-diol and 3beta-diol by the cytosols could not be demonstrated in vitro, while 5alpha-DHT was specifically bound. (2) In plasma, 3alpha-diol was extensively bound, 3beta-diol less extensively bound, while 5alpha-DHT remained unbound. (3) After intravenous injection of 3alpha-diol, specifically bound radioactivity, increasing within 30 min, was found in the prostate cytosol, while after 3beta-diol injection no binding occurred. (4) Parallel to the increased binding, the total radioactivity in the prostate accumulated within 30 min after 3alpha-diol injection, the uptake being 5-3 times higher than in skeletal muscle. However after 3beta-diol injection, total radioactivity decreased in the prostate within 30 min, the uptake being only 1-5 times higher than in skeletal muscle. (5) One minute after injection of 3alpha-diol, 53% of the extracted radioactivity in the prostate had been converted to 5alpha-DHT, this increased within 30 min to 81%. Thirty minutes after the injection of 3beta-diol, about 32% of the extracted radioactivity in the prostate had been converted to 5alpha-DHT. (6) From the in-vivo and in-vitro experiments it was concluded that 3alpha-diol exerts its biological effects mainly by its conversion into 5alpha-DHT.

PMID: 1133541 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Anyway…

I’m done for awhile. I feel like I’m beating my head against a wall right now.

I’ll check back in a few weeks from now and see what results have come in.

Quote
Originally posted by nearlythere
Yeah, but basically if you administer massive amounts of test (1+ gram/week) than you have a ton of “rusy keys” going into your door.

It doesn't matter anyway, it's what the hormones do once they are attached that is important. And that is where these two split off into different metabolic pathways.

There is one type of AR. There is one kind of door. Once the hormone has opened the door, the remaining action is gene expression. Once the ligand has activated the receptor, the action is indepent of androgens from that point.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Quote
Originally posted by nearlythere
ok smart guy, let me post these studies once again and than you can answer your own question.

But, ah, yeah, I've considered it.

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1975 Jun;79(2):394-402 Related Articles, Links

In vivo uptake and metabolism of 3-h-5alpha-androstane-3alpha,17beta-diol and of 3-h-5alpha-androstane-3beta,17beta-diol by human prostatic hypertrophy.

Horst HJ, Dennis M, Kaufmann J, Voigt KD.

Tritiated 5alpha-androstane-3alpha,17beta-diol (3alpha-diol) and 5alpha-androstane-3beta,17beta-diol (3beta-diol) respectively were administered to patients with benign prostatic hypertrophy (bph) undergoing prostatectomy. In prostate and skeletal muscle homogenates and in plasma the total radioactivity content as well as the formation of metabolites were measured. Histological examination of each ectomized prostate was performed to evaluate the cellular composition of the tissue. After 3alpha-diol injection, a higher uptake of radioactivity in the prostate was obtained than after 3beta-diol. Within 30 min the 3alpha-isomer was very efficiently converted to 5alpha-DHT, while most of the 3beta-isomer remained unchanged. There was, however, also after administration of the 3beta-diol a substantial biconversion to 5alpha-DHT as has been confirmed by recrystallization to constant specific radioactivity. Only after 3beta-diol epiandrosterone was detected in small but significant amounts. 3alpha-diol administration resulted in distinct concentrations of 3beta-diol, whereas the conversion of 3beta-diol to the 3alpha-isomer was insignificant. When comparing the histological composition of the prostatic tissue with the accumulation of radioactivity and the formation of metabolites only a weak correlation between glandular structure and radioactivity uptake after 3alpha-diol administration could be revealed.

PMID: 49141 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Endocrinol 1975 Mar;64(3):529-38 Related Articles, Links

Binding and metabolism of 5alpha-androstane-3alpha, 17 beta-diol and of 5alpha-androstane-3beta, 17 beta-diol in the prostate, seminal vesicles and plasma of male rats: studies in vivo and in vitro.

Krieg M, Horst HJ, Sterba ML.

Binding of 5alpha-androstane-3alpha, 17 beta-diol (3alpha-diol) and 5alpha-androstane-3beta,-17 beta-diol (3beta-diol) in vivo and in vitro to the 100 000 g cytosol fraction of the rat prostate and seminal vesicles as well as to plasma was studied by agargel electrophoresis and sucrose density gradient ultracentrifugation and the results compared with the corresponding findings for 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (5alpha-DHT). The metabolism of 3alpha-diol and 3beta-diol was also investigated by thin-layer chromatography. The following results were obtained: (1) A specific binding of 3alpha-diol and 3beta-diol by the cytosols could not be demonstrated in vitro, while 5alpha-DHT was specifically bound. (2) In plasma, 3alpha-diol was extensively bound, 3beta-diol less extensively bound, while 5alpha-DHT remained unbound. (3) After intravenous injection of 3alpha-diol, specifically bound radioactivity, increasing within 30 min, was found in the prostate cytosol, while after 3beta-diol injection no binding occurred. (4) Parallel to the increased binding, the total radioactivity in the prostate accumulated within 30 min after 3alpha-diol injection, the uptake being 5-3 times higher than in skeletal muscle. However after 3beta-diol injection, total radioactivity decreased in the prostate within 30 min, the uptake being only 1-5 times higher than in skeletal muscle. (5) One minute after injection of 3alpha-diol, 53% of the extracted radioactivity in the prostate had been converted to 5alpha-DHT, this increased within 30 min to 81%. Thirty minutes after the injection of 3beta-diol, about 32% of the extracted radioactivity in the prostate had been converted to 5alpha-DHT. (6) From the in-vivo and in-vitro experiments it was concluded that 3alpha-diol exerts its biological effects mainly by its conversion into 5alpha-DHT.

PMID: 1133541 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Just so you know, those studies are about the prostate. Most of us want to make our PENIS bigger.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Quote
Originally posted by nearlythere
Thanks B&B,

Why was this initially prescribed? HRT?


To answer your question: yes. But, I think we’re
straying from the topic now.

Quote
Originally posted by Jones8315
How old are you? Don't get discouraged yet, I saw my gains mostly after 14 days. Try not to have sex or masturbate. Alcohol will raise E and kill gains. Don't touch it.

1/4” length and girth in 14 days is what you stated in your first post. Most would consider that impressive.

Hi guys,

Well, thought I’d chime in with a two week update.

I’m a little bigger.

1/8” in length and girth.

But I’m not sure that can be attributed to the AD-4. I started pumping about a week beforehand, so I’m not sure I can substantiate or deny the affects of AD-4.

I noticed no negative side effects, although occaisionally my balls felt a little restless…if that makes any sense.

Too be honest, I’m a little disappointed. Not only with the prohormone, but with pumping. I would have figured a new pumper to make fairly rapid gains, and with AD-4…I was hoping for a real breakthrough.

Perhaps I’m expecting too much, but my personal experience with PE has always been that growth happens relatively quickly, in short spurts. I like pumping, and I like the ideas Jones brought to the table, but ultimately it’s not what I think or like that matters.

Start: 7.75x5.1

2 weeks: 7.875 x 5.25

At this point, I’m seriously considering hanging and ulie-thing work. 9x6 is required by Jan/04, after which my time for PE will seriously be limited. But for the next 5 months, I can spend half the day obsessing over cock.

Sorry to get off-track.

N.


Keep doin' what your doin' ...

And you'll keep getting what ya got.

Hey northstar,

Thanks for posting your results. Are you intending to continue?

>Perhaps I’m expecting too much, but my personal experience with PE has always been that growth happens relatively quickly, in short spurts.<
Yeah I think its reasonable to expect that results show in spurts and that they may not kick in quickly with a new routine.


Thunder's Place: increasing penis size one dick at a time.

Momento,

The how old are you question was directed to me I think. I earlier last week said I was up 1/8 inch in length but didn’t consider that significant. I never stated girth other than I looked thicker and thought I hung thicker.

North

No your on track, thanks for the report and be careful, and my all means start hanging while you have the time, most people usually report a quick gain when they first start hanging.


I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work. Thomas Edison (1847-1931)

northstar, bigone0749: The third week is crucial. That is when I much of my gains.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Jones,

You say you got 1/4” length and girth in 14 days. Now I’m confused because your 20 day end results show that the first two weeks were way more impressive.


Thunder's Place: increasing penis size one dick at a time.

I saw 1/4 inch in the first 14 and 1/4 inch in the last 6 days. There was faster growth toward the end.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

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