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I agree, estrogen needs a thread of its own.

Over the past 30 years, the average penis length has gone from 6.2 to 5.5. Some doctor’s think it is largely becuase of exogenous exposure to estrogen.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Quote
Originally posted by Jones8315
I agree, estrogen needs a thread of its own.

Over the past 30 years, the average penis length has gone from 6.2 to 5.5. Some doctor's think it is largely becuase of exogenous exposure to estrogen.

Which study shows that the average length has gone down as
you say? Sounds like an interesting read. I wonder if balls have
shrunk too. Maybe some doctors think wearing tighty-whities
have caused the average package to shrink all together?

biggerandbetter: I heard this from an ER doc, and I don’t really have the time to reference urology journals for hours, and I have no reason not to believe him.

“Just read your post regarding the cream. I have been jelqing for 3 years, age 64
Went from 5.75 x 5.5 to 7.5 x 6.5
I am wondering, since I had a vasectomy years ago and only shoot blanks, what
side effects there would be from using the stuff.
Also, is there a place to purchase it without having to get a scrip.
Please answer
thank you”

Hey bro, sounds like you’ve been making good progress with a prohormone cream. But at your age, you may be a little more affected by higher testosterone then the youngins. Have you ever been on testosterone replacement therapy? If so, I would say go for it, because you know what to expect.

As for the vasectomy, that wont effect things. It is interesting though, docs say it wont affect sex drive, but many people says it actually does. I think spermatogenesis is related to many other things in the body that we just don’t know about yet. But the mechanism for theorized penile growth should not be effected.

And, you don’t need a script. You do need it for androgel though. If you want to kill two birds and have thought about TRT go to your doctor and get a script. But you can get topical 4AD gel from 1fast400.com, which just needs one enzymatic conversion to get to testosterone, so almost just as good. But, it is best to do this under a doctor’s supervision at your age.

Do you suffer from frequent urination or anything else related to BPH, if so, you should reconsider trying this. The oldest person who has done this is whitehall, he is 51 I think. I hope I am as open minded at your age.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Quote
Originally posted by Jones8315

biggerandbetter: I heard this from an ER doc, and I don't really have the time to reference urology journals for hours, and I have no reason not to believe him.

Hmm, hard to give you credibility if you won’t make the effort to

site your sources. Are the rest of us not worth the effort? You

heard something from an ER doc, that’s very different from a form

statistical study that has been peer reviewed and published. You

might have no reason not to believe from him, but why should we

believe either of you?

biggerandbetter'

“Hmm, hard to give you credibility if you won’t make the effort to
site your sources. Are the rest of us not worth the effort? You
heard something from an ER doc, that’s very different from a form
statistical study that has been peer reviewed and published. You
might have no reason not to believe from him, but why should we
believe either of you?”

Things are just starting to calm down. I would hate to see you and Jones go at it.

He is saying this is something someone told him. Maybe he got good info, maybe not. It is not like he is saying he read a study and then refused to cite it. He has never read this study. I don’t think he should be expected to find it because he brought up a conversation he had. I think he should have said an ER doc told him this when he first brought it up, but that is a minor point in mho.

I hope you don’t feel I am attacking you or minimizing your concern. I wouldn’t say anything in any other thread, it is just that this thread has already had a lot of flaming and I am hoping that we can move past that.

I have exchanged a couple of PMs’ with Jones and he has not come off as hostile, he is actually forthcoming and friendly. I think a lot of heated arguing can result in a little defensiveness. Heck, if it were me, I would be reading every other line as an attack. Sure, he is a little blunt, but I think the guy is worth having around, so I propose we work with him. Jones, I also hope you become a little softer in some of your responses. This is part of a process that is necessary for a balance in information.

I think we all should be a little gentle with each other. Feeling are hurt easily and tempers flare with the slightest spark.

At the same time, I am not meaning to criticize those who have voiced concerns. These concerns should be voiced so that this can be kept as safe as possible.

Cheers,
PS

A few concerns

Hello,

I have not seen a study stating the long term effects of Androgen applied topically to an adult penis. I am not saying that I believe there are negative long term effects, just that we don’t know.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, there is no real regulation of the purity of nutritional supplements. I worry that the percentage of reaction byproducts might be quite high and I worry that some might be toxic.

I also don’t know what chemicals are used in the manufacturing process and how well they are removed by the time the final product has been reached.

I am hoping this won’t result in heated debate. I am just expressing some thoughts. I am not terribly knowledgeable on this subject.

Cheers,
PS

Quote
Originally posted by Jones8315
I agree, estrogen needs a thread of its own.

Over the past 30 years, the average penis length has gone from 6.2 to 5.5. Some doctor's think it is largely becuase of exogenous exposure to estrogen.

What *is* the average penis length? Nobody else seems to know, but I’m sure you do. How exactly does estrogen contribute to a decrease in penis size.

Aren’t these studies on size NBP? And haven’t we all gotten fatter?

Hi,

I do not wonder that (male and female) sex organ are altered along time, since we take foods like soy that modify our hormones balance (Testosterone and Estrogens) which are the main hormones to develop our sex organs.

Specially in the childhood (soy preparate for newborns), when we are growing our characteristics as a man or a women, taking something that altered this development can change many things (say: micro-penis, Thyroid glans problems, early maturity,etc…). For example, you can not give soybeans to birds, this promotes thyroid dysfunctions.

A link: http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/7/soy.htm

Soy is not the only thing, there are others like environmental pollution.

Altering our hormones level has not direct and immediate change, but along time it will and it does…

Matti

There have been a couple of studies over the past few decades on size (I think a condom manufacter was one) that anyone with google and a desire to learn can find themselves quicker than it takes to write a post, each of them concluded different averages. I think it was Avocet8 who said recently in another thread that he sometimes felt like everybodys librarian.

Jones has took a lot of underserved flak in my opinion. I don’t see a need to make things personal when a simple request for clarification on a point is desired. If I were him I’d have walked a long time back. He’s not paid to share his knowledge, he is doing it in the spirit of the forum.

The trouble with inter study comparisons is that the measurement methods were not stipulated, and one study even had the guys measure themselves! NBPEL to BPFSL is enough to skew all the data and render it useless.

http://www.free-condom-stuff.com/fc…erage-size.html

“The average erect penis length was 5.877 inches (14.928cm).
Standard deviation was 0.825 inches (2.096cm) with 54% of the effective sample measuring between 5.5 inches (14cm) and 6.3 inches (16cm).”

This “study” was done in 2001

http://www.vigrx.de/faq.html

“The Kinsey Institute Report is one of the most complete studies of penis size to date. It states that the average white male has a penis measuring 6.2 inches long and 3.7 inches around, and the average black African male has a penis measuring 6.3 inches long and 3.8 inches around. This is a difference of only 0.1 inches, which is not statistically significant. Generally speaking there is no little difference in the size of the penises, and this is true worldwide.”

This “study” was done in 1948.

“If” you take these as being correct then you can conclude that the average has dropped. That ER Doctor may have been working on that premise.

Neither of these “studies” are very credible. But if you do accept them as fact then the average has dropped.

but 3.7 and 3.8 inches girth, that musta been a flaccid measurement, no ?

Thats a good question. Maybe a typo. Maybe not, just showing a point.

“Hmm, hard to give you credibility if you won’t make the effort to
site your sources. Are the rest of us not worth the effort? You
heard something from an ER doc, that’s very different from a form
statistical study that has been peer reviewed and published. You
might have no reason not to believe from him, but why should we
believe either of you?”

biggerandbetter, I have no interest in fighting with you. If you choose not to believe me for any reason, I don’t care. Please don’t waste our time. I think everyone reading this thread is capable of coming to there own conclusion.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

I’ve started a new thread in the Main section: “Estrogen: enemy of mankind?” If you have some input I would appreciate it.


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science. " Albert Einstein

I know a really potent source of estrogen. You guys should really try to avoid it. Sometimes they actually get up and walk around.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

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