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And, ok


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

This is great! By the end of this, we might have some answers.

Cya at 8, assuming there is some sort of localized effect, how would you curb the potential health risks?

What is to stop your prostate from being enlarged in the same manner as your dick?

Dr Reichter (‘shoesize12’), who reportedly went from 6-10 inches in 8 months, recommended an every other day application to minimize the effect on testosterone production. Any thoughts on this?

My problem here, assuming this works, is that what is responsible for making your dick bigger, will also make your prostate bigger, shut down testosterone production, and make your hair fall out.

In a nutshell.

How can this be worked around?
N.


Keep doin' what your doin' ...

And you'll keep getting what ya got.

>There seem to be 2 topics here. Theory and Safety.<

Add another. The law. Androgel is a Schedule III drug, the same category as amphetamines, methamphetamines, opium and morphine.

From http://www.elitefitness.com/members…law/history.htm :

Quote
Simple possession of any Schedule III substance is a federal offense punishable by up to one year in prison and/or a minimum fine of $1,000. Simple possession by a person with a previous conviction for certain offenses, including any drug or narcotic crimes, must get imprisonment of at least 15 days and up to two years, and a minimum fine of $2,500. Individuals with two or more such previous convictions face imprisonment of not less than 90 days but not more than three years, and a minimum fine of $5,000, just for simply possessing.

You are 100% correct.

But I said use 4AD. It converts to T right in the penis.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Regarding the effects of an increase of basal testosterone, (BPH, hair loss, exogenous test suppression), I dropped by some bodybuilding sites and most of the guys had really good things to say about 4AD.

Average cycle lasted about a month, with an average weight gain of about 10lbs. On the bottle, recommended dosages are 5-10 squirts twice a day. If I know my bodybuilder friends, half of them were probably bathing in the stuff.

I could find no posts on any unwanted side effects (I’ll keep looking).

If these guys are experiencing no problems with 20+ squirts a day, is one or two really a potential danger?

I dunno, the dangers MIGHT be a bit over-hyped in this regard.

N.

(Incidentally, it appears Avant has ceased production of 4AD.)


Keep doin' what your doin' ...

And you'll keep getting what ya got.

I wonder why…….


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Jones,

>But I said use 4AD. It converts to T right in the penis.<

It does convert to T, but only a small amount, as I said earlier. After that not 100% of the T created will be converted to DHT.

North,

>I could find no posts on any unwanted side effects (I’ll keep looking).<

No, 4-AD is relatively safe. It cannot (ever) aromatise or convert to DHT. Only the portion that converts to T, which although is not much as a %, if you take a large dose you will get a noticable boost, but nothing compared to if you took angrogel. 4-AD is anabolic in its unconverted form, so with bodybuilding you can still make progress if little is converted to T.

But for the purpose of this discussion, 4-AD in its unconverted form is useless.

SS4

I hit a brick wall here. A big brick wall. I saw an article which implicates Estrogen as the culprit in prostate growth. On top of that, they say that DHT is used as a treatment for enlarged prostate.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm
http://www.dihydrotestosterone.com/

Something is afoot here. Further studies are needed. The strange thing is that growth of both resonate from the same nuro pathway during puberty and both respond the same way after as far as maintaining size with DHT after puberty. Something is very strange here. There must be another chemical signal that we aren’t catching.

This doesnt mean to rub E on your dick to make it grow. I havent studied very high levels of DHT in the prostate as of yet.

My old sig. would work good here:

Ummmmmmmm. I dunno!

Quote
Originally posted by Jones8315
But I said use 4AD. It converts to T right in the penis.

Really?

I’d love to see some explanation on that one….

Hint: it’s the liver bro.

Quote
Originally posted by northstar
Regarding the effects of an increase of basal testosterone, (BPH, hair loss, exogenous test suppression), I dropped by some bodybuilding sites and most of the guys had really good things to say about 4AD.

Average cycle lasted about a month, with an average weight gain of about 10lbs. On the bottle, recommended dosages are 5-10 squirts twice a day. If I know my bodybuilder friends, half of them were probably bathing in the stuff.

I could find no posts on any unwanted side effects (I'll keep looking).

If these guys are experiencing no problems with 20+ squirts a day, is one or two really a potential danger?

I dunno, the dangers MIGHT be a bit over-hyped in this regard.

N.

(Incidentally, it appears Avant has ceased production of 4AD.)

northstar,

Ask your bodybuilder friends if they have a plan for coming ‘off cycle’ as we say. I’m sure they do. And please go back and read the post and the posted study I have on how the body can not differentiate between 2 and 20 ‘squirts’.

ANY ANDROGEN INTRODUCED INTO THE BODY WILL SHUT DOWN ALL NATURAL TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION!

That’s the risk. It is NOT less of a risk simply becuase you use less of the product.

Oh yeah, Avant ceased production of ALL of their topical steriodal and prohormone gels becuase the FDA told them to in very certain terms.

“ANY ANDROGEN INTRODUCED INTO THE BODY WILL SHUT DOWN ALL NATURAL TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION!”

This is incorect. I will proove it shortly.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

“That’s the risk. It is NOT less of a risk simply becuase you use less of the product. “

Then why will any bodybuilder tell you that if you use 900mg of 4AD you will experience fewer side effects then if you use 50mg?

It is common sense.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Hey Nearlythere,

I think I’m reading the study wrong, because I don’t see where a light application of a prohormone gel will result in a complete shutdown of test production.

DESIGN: To eliminate the influence of endogenous serum testosterone, gonadotrophins and endogenous testosterone secretion were suppressed by a single intramuscular injection of 400 mg norethisterone enanthate.

When I read the study, it suggests to me that norethisterone enanthate is responsible for shutting down test, not the gels (of which it was mentioned a small amount was not a sufficient replacement).

However, I may well be missing something here. If you have any studies on small amounts of 4-AD (or similiar prohormones) shutting down test, I’m all ears.

Thanks Nearly,
N.


Keep doin' what your doin' ...

And you'll keep getting what ya got.

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