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Finasteride Cycling

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I’m not certain that the AR sensitization/desensitization hypothesis has been scientifically debunked yet.

If what does happen is just up and down regulation of AR, perhaps it’s the changes of something beyond the receptors themselves that enables growth/sensitivity?

The message travelling through the telephone wire (DHT) —> Phone receiver (Receptor) —> The person (Some cell that responds)

Eg. in the case of a penis that is first starved of DHT, and then gets some:

1) Lack of food and an empty stomach (No DHT at receptor sites or penis cells)
2) Person eats food (DHT reintroduced to receptor sites and penis cells)
3) Person overindulges to quickly get rid of the feeling of starvation (The penis cells overreact by becoming hypersensitive/bigger


BiffyStiffy

Biff

Give it a try the worse thing that could happen is your hair gets thicker.


I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work. Thomas Edison (1847-1931)

Originally Posted by BiffyStiffy
I’m not certain that the AR sensitization/desensitization hypothesis has been scientifically debunked yet.

If what does happen is just up and down regulation of AR, perhaps it’s the changes of something beyond the receptors themselves that enables growth/sensitivity?

The message travelling through the telephone wire (DHT) —> Phone receiver (Receptor) —> The person (Some cell that responds)

Eg. In the case of a penis that is first starved of DHT, and then gets some:

1) Lack of food and an empty stomach (No DHT at receptor sites or penis cells)
2) Person eats food (DHT reintroduced to receptor sites and penis cells)
3) Person overindulges to quickly get rid of the feeling of starvation (The penis cells overreact by becoming hypersensitive/bigger

The analogy is somewhat flawed. The receptor in/on the cell is like a switch. If the chemical binds then the switch is turned on. I can see the reasoning behind this process as you’re looking for a rebound type effect. What happens is that in the lack of presence of a chemical the body produces more receptors. A rough analogy is like when someone isdieting they are starving their body for nutrients. The body reponds by increasing insulin and other chemicals need to store energy as either proteins, fats, ATP, etc. So when you go off the diet you have a rebound effect and can sometimes gain more than what you were at. Therefore the dht inhibition may work but not really due to sensitization issues. Be aware that 5AR inhibitors can have side effects. Blocking dht can cause more estrogen production through armatization of testosterone. This can lead to HPTA inhibition of shutdown resulting in less production of testosterone. Estrogen can also cause gynocomastia and prostate enlargment. Run moderate doses and perhaps an aromatase inhibitor to prevent sides. I also would run it longer than two months as you might shutdown the HPTA axis causing hte libido to be further shot.

If sensitization of AR doesn’t occur and what does occur instead is an upregulation, it sounds as though DHT has to be seriously diminished in order for a significant percentage of AR/penis cells to go without DHT.

I will try out inhibiting DHT but I am not keen on taking Finasteride. I’ve been looking at alternatives to drugs and may try large doses of:

Saw palmetto 960mg
Pygeum 100mg
Stinging nettle 200mg
Daidzein 50mg
Genistein 50mg

Then when it comes time to the rebound phase (after 6 months), I’ll stop everything cold turkey and start:

A regimen of lifting heavy weights
1000+mg of EPA (omega 3)
Zinc and magnesium
Increasing saturated fat to boost 5 alpha reductase activity
Maybe yohimbine, or perhaps avena sativa, tribulus terrestris, and/or horny goat weed

The only problem for me is that all this is really expensive and I’m poor. So it may be a little while before I actually start. My supplement plan isn’t fixed yet anyway. Any advice is appreciated.


BiffyStiffy

> What happens is that in the lack of presence of a chemical the body produces more receptors.

That isn’t the case with androgen receptors and high levels of androgens. It works backwards from what you’d think. I ran across either a study or an article mentioning the study a while back in which above normal testosterone caused an increase in receptors for ~6 months. More T = more receptors, at least short term.

>I will try out inhibiting DHT but I am not keen on taking Finasteride.

I don’t blame you. In a few guys it causes long-lasting serious problems. Those supplements aren’t likely to reduce DHT all that much.

Quote
Then when it comes time to the rebound phase (after 6 months), I’ll stop everything cold turkey and start:

A regimen of lifting heavy weights
1000+mg of EPA (omega 3)
Zinc and magnesium
Increasing saturated fat to boost 5 alpha reductase activity
Maybe yohimbine, or perhaps avena sativa, tribulus terrestris, and/or horny goat weed

Lifting weights won’t boost testosterone.
EPA won’t boost testosterone.
Zinc will help if you are zinc deficient but otherwise won’t.
Adequate saturated fat is important, but an excess isn’t needed.
Yohimbine is an alpha receptor antagonist - won’t affect T.
The other herbs won’t affect T production much if at all.

You could spend a lot of $ on all that stuff, yet it won’t accomplish what you intend. If temporarily boosting T is the goal an aromatase inhibitor will do the trick. OTC, you can buy Rebound XT, Novedex XT or Attack (all the same active ingredient) for $25-$30 a bottle.

I doubt any of this will do anything to improve your sensitivity.

Originally Posted by hobby
> What happens is that in the lack of presence of a chemical the body produces more receptors.

That isn’t the case with androgen receptors and high levels of androgens. It works backwards from what you’d think. I ran across either a study or an article mentioning the study a while back in which above normal testosterone caused an increase in receptors for ~6 months. More T = more receptors, at least short term.

I wonder if cycling with topical DHT would increase sensitivity then? Any idea on how long to apply it/not apply it?


BiffyStiffy

I thought that was an exercise program involving a bike, oh well :shrug:

>I wonder if cycling with topical DHT would increase sensitivity then? Any idea on how long to apply it/not apply it?

Until you go bald? :)

How about Andractim for 10 days?

I found an alternative to Androgel called Restorin. It has 6% testosterone. Maybe I could take that for 10 days?

Andractim sounds less risky since it doesn’t convert to estrogen and testosterone won’t be suppressed, but very few have reported permament increase in sensitivity/growth from using it. Does any hair that has been lost grow back after DHT has been stopped?

4AD has caused growth in some, but has the potential to create gynecomastia and suppressed testosterone.


BiffyStiffy

Hey Biff,

why did you let this thread die? Did you finally get something out of it?
I’ve been reading a lot about pulsing orals (http://anabolicminds.com/forum/ster…ulse-orals.html) and was just wondering what would happen if someone pulsed the fin. I’m really surprised that this topic has been discussed ages ago :D

mcn


More meat - More fun! :D ***April 2006 - 9.5" BPFSL***August 2008 - 9.65" BPFSL, 9.35" BPEL***

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