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Dad is weak; Can T help?

RickM: Do you remember any time when you were on T but not Arimidex? How did you feel? Can you say with any certainty that it was the Arimidex that made the critical difference for you?


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No modestoman it binds to SHBG itself thus reducing the amount of SHBG in the blood that is available to bind to free testosterone, DHT, estrogen etc.The Doctor over at the leanbulk forums ran Divanil (Nettle Root) for 4 weeks, doing a whole bunch of blood tests during the test. After 4 weeks, his total testosterone was lowered by a few %, his free testosterone was up by around 30%(it actually brought them out the the standard range for him) and his estrogen had gone down some (can’t remember by how much though). His SHBG level had gone down by around 30%, out of/below the standard range. There was another log on some forums that reported a 47% increase in free T with this supplement. Seems like the perfect sup. for your father.

You can find all those test results (and even how it made him feel) in his log here(on that page): http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt…=3654581&page=7


Decemeber 2007: 5.8" BPEL x 4.9" MSEG

Current:-------->7.7" BPEL x 5.7" MSEG (7.2" NBPEL)

Current Goal:--->7.6" BPEL X 5.8" MSEG Do or do not, there is no "try".

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
I talked to the doctor, and he responded as I predicted. He said that Dad’s estrogen was “a little high” but not unusually so. He said he sees those numbers all the time and expects them to come down over time on their own. He said he isn’t eager to prescribe Arimidex, on account of its side effects, which he said could be “awful.”


First, there isn’t a whole lot of evidence for oestrogen side effects in men, but you can google them for yourself. Frankly, I suspect that your doctor is playing safe because he really doesn’t know. However, indications suggest that the cancer problem some men on HRT have is not the high testosterone itself, but the high oestrogen that results from it. I don’t think oestrogen will come down by itself – well, not based on my experiences anyway.

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
The doc said that if Dad’s not feeling better by 3 months after beginning treatment, testosterone isn’t his problem and it’s back to square one.


Again, based on my experiences, BULLSHIT!!!!

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
I pushed back a little regarding estrogen levels, saying that I’ve read that levels need to be much lower for men to feel their best. He said there is a wide range of opinion about proper estrogen levels, and he’s basing his decision not to treat Dad’s levels on what he sees in his practice.


I’m tempted to ask, what is his experience? BUGGER ALL, I suspect.

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
RickM: Do you remember any time when you were on T but not Arimidex? How did you feel? Can you say with any certainty that it was the Arimidex that made the critical difference for you?


You can never be certain based on a population of one. However, my results go back to 12 February 2004 and are at 3-monthly intervals. My range over that period has been from 358 pmol/L to 91. My experience is that it can be both too high and too low – yes, you do need some. I aim for about 100 to 125 if I can, but getting a predetermined level is not that easy. Outside that range I do get side effects or feel crap generally. Again, you can look these up on the web.

I started taking Arimidex in the first quarter of 2007 – half a milligram each three days. When I first went on HRT, I was only taking T at very low doses, but these increased over a couple of years. Initially, I felt really good with HRT, but as my T intake increased (and oestrogen along with it), I started feeling more and more crap. This all went away when I began with Arimidex.

And to add to man-of-10’s comments: absolutely, diet, exercise and proper supplementation are all part of it. I’ll qualify that, though, by saying that some herbal compounds and hCG might be fine at the early stages of andropause and stimulate your hormone system to do what it should — mainly your balls. However, if they’ve shut down, there’s not much point flogging a dead horse and HRT is the only alternative.

I’ll add to my first sentence here, especially for guys who have retired — you also need adequate intellectual stimulation. Reading books or watching movies are NOT good enough. You need to make yourself think, like with playing some computer games, playing sudoku, playing bridge, playing mahjong, learning a new language, etc. And also, make sure your homocystene levels are OK. If they’re not, also check folate and B12 and supplement if they’re too low.

All comments are appreciated! I will take a second look at nettle root. I don’t want to start prescribing things for my father; I just want to make sure the doctor is taking all steps necessary.


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Arimidex and Letrozole makes me feel like shit. If your dad touches either of them make sure he is on a super low dose. I abolished my estrogen for a couple weeks and my strength increases came to a halt and I had little motivation to do anything because my energy suffered and all my joints in my body hurt.


PE Goal: 7.5" NBP x 5.8" MSG

I think your main objective should be getting your dad up and being more active the extra testosterone will help his body recover quickly to where it has been before but this won’t happen just from taking testosterone and doing nothing. I am taking 500mg testosterone a week but I will still lose muscle and get weak if I quit eating enough real food and not using my muscles so I am not sure if you have the common misconception stuck in your head that just by elevating testosterone alone will accomplish physical goals, it may over a period of 20 years.

Get him to cut way back or cut out simple carbs and only take them in when he feels he needs them, I cut them out for about 4 months and only had them after work outs to spike my insulin and when I started back on a lot of simple carbs to try and gain some weight I instantly noticed how lazy they made me feel.

Another thing you should check to see if he is getting a decent amount of calcium, its important if you want your muscles to work their best and I have to supplement it in my diet because I don’t eat foods that have much of it. One calcium supplement I bought and tried gave me bad internal pains near the kidneys but I switched to a different kind and it went away.

Carbonated drinks I hear ruins your guts ability to absorb a few things including calcium so maybe you should get him to cut soda’s out if he likes them and replace them with tea if he just can’t stand to go without a sweet drink.


PE Goal: 7.5" NBP x 5.8" MSG

Originally Posted by bluray
Arimidex and Letrozole makes me feel like shit. If your dad touches either of them make sure he is on a super low dose. I abolished my estrogen for a couple weeks and my strength increases came to a halt and I had little motivation to do anything because my energy suffered and all my joints in my body hurt.


Hi bluray. I have a several questions for you please.

1. First, were you taking Arimidex or Letrozole under your doctor’s prescription?

2. If so, what was your dosage?

3. Did your doctor take blood tests at 3-monthly intervals or something similar to see what was happening in your system with that dosage?

4. If he was doing that, how did your blood test results stack up against that found in the “normal” male population according to your pathologist?

The bottom line is that it’s not just “a super low dose”, it’s a dose that works for you and gets your oestrogen to where it should be.

From what I can glean from the web and my own experience, all guys are different. Some easily aromatise T to oestrogen others don’t. However, the likelihood of doing this increases rapidly as we age. Some argue that is why older guys are more likely to get prostate cancer – i.e. their oestrogen levels are too high. High oestrogen levels can occur with or without T supplementation, but are more likely with it. Some guys in their 60s naturally make more oestrogen than their wives.

Also, please be aware that women take Arimidex at MUCH higher dosages than men. Surf the web and you’ll see what I mean – your doctor should not be using a typical female dosage (typically, women take 1 mg every day, as a male I take 0.5 mg three times a week, i.e. 1.5 mg over a whole week). If you take too much, your Oestrogen levels will drop too much and you’ll “feel like shit” as you say. However, if they’re too high, and I suspect ModestoMan’s dad’s are, you can also feel crook. I know that from my experience, having been in both places.

Having said all that, I thoroughly agree with your second post, immediately above. It’s a whole lifestyle change if we want the best for ourselves, including diet, exercise, challenging your mind (not just though reading books or watching movies either) and, for many of us, HRT. And I reckon you should avoid most carbonated drinks all together because they’re full of sugar.


Last edited by RickM : 04-29-2010 at .

Just a quick update to anyone following this thread. My dad did not see any significant improvement from taking T, even after his levels were boosted to over 1000. His beard got thicker and he got some body hair back, but there was no improvement in his mental functioning, alertness, or mood, as far as he could tell.

He has decided not to continue with treatment; I can’t say I blame him.

For an ironic follow-up, see Modesto’s Test Test.


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