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Dad is weak; Can T help?

Originally Posted by Para-Goomba
… . Those testosterone levels look normal for his age… .

Yes they might be and that is possibly a normal part of the aging process. We can choose to roll with the punches or fight. Now I know I’m not your Dad and am probably 20 years his junior. However, I intend to go out fighting. Not that I want to live a day longer, but I want the quality of those days to be as good as I can. HRT has helped me enormously and maybe it can for your Dad as well. I don’t know. However, read my post on HRT as I suggested above. I had dreadful changes in muscle:fat ratios and I’ve reversed it. I aged well before my time in many ways and have stopped it.

Make a google research for : He Shou Wu

(Polygonum multiflorum), Noni, and Aswaganda (Whitania Somnifera) . I suggest to take all.

First off, I want to thank everyone who responded. SSK, I appreciate your professional opinion!

I hear the cautionary notes that many of you are sounding, and I will take them to heart. I know my parents (both Mom and Dad are still with us) will be very cautious about any hormone treatment. But I want to understand the situation better and especially zero in on exactly what the risks of treatment might be, and how they compare to the benefits, especially considering that Dad is heading for a wheelchair, which would have huge consequences for both Mom and Dad and would probably require them to move and make other radical changes.

To put his numbers in perspective, Dad’s total T at 392 compares to a reference range of 90 to 890. The range represents the middle 95% of all subjects tested by that lab. When you consider that hormone tests for men are typically performed only on those complaining of symptoms, one wonders whether that range is really representative of the general population, or rather of the symptomatic population. In any case, 392 is at the low end.

Also, his free T of 40.7 compares to a reference range of 30 to 135. Same comment. I recently read that free T under 50 renders a man functionally impotent, and that no amount of Viagra can help it.

His percent free T is actually off-scale low. At 1.04%, it compares to a reference range of 1.5 to 2.2%. I don’t know how significant the percent number is in predicting symptoms, but it’s striking how low it is.

His LH is at the bottom of the range (3.1 compared to a range of 3.1 to 34.6). LH is the hormone from the petuitary gland that stimulates the testes to secrete testosterone. The fact that it is so low suggests the problem may not be in his testes but rather in his petuitary or perhaps his hypothalmus (hypothalmus senses T in the blood and sends a message to the petuitary to secrete LH if T is too low).

As for Dad’s lifestyle, he hates to exercise but has been doing PT for several years, with little to show for it. We’ve recently gotten him working with a personal trainer. He complains about it, but he does it.

His bone density is actually normal, which is very good since he falls all the time. Maybe it will save him from breaking his hip.

His diet could be better, but it’s really not bad. Mom is a good cook and cooks often. He has 3 meals a day, gets plenty of protein, and takes vitamins. If there’s a problem with his diet, it’s probably too much starch. He loves cookies and cake!

He is on various medications, including blood pressure meds and antidepressants. These could certainly be having an effect. Interestingly, I’ve read that low T can cause high blood pressure, so I wonder whether T therapy might reduce his need for BP meds and have a double benefit. Of course, it might also help him with depression, enabling him to reduce/eliminate the them, as well.

From what I’ve read, the primary risk that discourages most doctors from prescribing TRT is prostate cancer and prostate enlargement. I did some research about this yesterday, and couldn’t find anything definitively linking T with prostate cancer. JAMA published a study in 2006 showing no connection between TRT and prostate problems after 1 year with a small group of study participants (about 50). Many doctors think the connection is a myth, and some even suggest that it is low T that causes prostate problems.

So, I’m still trying to figure out WTF is going on and what the risks might be. We’re not talking about raising his T outside the normal range; the goal would be to increase his free T to normal adult levels.

RickM: Thanks for the link. I read that with great interest and forwarded it to my dad with the note that “this is what a Pro-T doctor sounds like.”


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Unconventional med states you might want a cortisol test from the blood. Cortisol is associated as a marker for depression in these camps. High cortisol also is thought as a marker for reverse T3. Thyroid and hormones makes a whole system. Most people put bigger injectors on an engine and couldn’t be bothered to increase the pumping pressure or even examine the manifold’s breathing, know what I am saying?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol

http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/33/6/1364

http://www.royalrife.com/hypothyroid.html Excess estrogen interferes with the conversion of T4 to the active T3

http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/conte…t/EJE-08-0519v1


“You see, I don’t want to do good things, I want to do great things.” ~Alexander Joseph Luthor

I know Lewd Ferrigno personally.

I think his problem lies within the prolactin.

I think he should go for a complete medical check-up. His symptoms seem to show there is something wrong . Possibly something not working properly, and allowing toxins to build up in his body.

Apart from that, like it or not; exercise is the only way to keep the body working, rather than just turning over.


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Originally Posted by twatteaser
Unconventional med states you might want a cortisol test from the blood. Cortisol is associated as a marker for depression in these camps. High cortisol also is thought as a marker for reverse T3. Thyroid and hormones makes a whole system. Most people put bigger injectors on an engine and couldn’t be bothered to increase the pumping pressure or even examine the manifold’s breathing, know what I am saying?

TT: The endo ordered a cortisol test for my father; we’re still waiting for the results. From his early blood tests, both T4 and TSH were normal. No test was done for T3.

I think the endo was thinking that the cortisol test would generally be diagnostic of his overall pituitary function. I don’t know why he thought that. Maybe I’ll ask.


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Originally Posted by kimish
I think his problem lies within the prolactin.

Why is that, Kimish? His prolactin at 12.3 was near the middle of the range (2-18). Why do you suspect a problem?


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Originally Posted by ModestoMan
TT: The endo ordered a cortisol test for my father; we’re still waiting for the results. From his early blood tests, both T4 and TSH were normal. No test was done for T3.

I think the endo was thinking that the cortisol test would generally be diagnostic of his overall pituitary function. I don’t know why he thought that. Maybe I’ll ask.


From what I’ve understood about that, TSH and T4 only tell half the story, T3 being where it’s at - and the brain can’t convert (or only at low rate) T4 into T3 anyway, so if you’re low on T3 (or high on reverse T3) you are likely to have a problem with depression AND with low energy in general.

By the way, make sure all shampoo, cream and stuff like that containing anything that ends with -paraben goes out in the trash - apparently parabens, pcb, mercury are big on messing with thyroid receptors.

Lack of iodine and selenium are clearly linked to malfunctioning receptors too - make sure the table salt is iodine enriched and buy brazil nuts for your parents. Brazil nuts seem to be one of few good ways of getting enough selenium.


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Well his test levels are within normal range so why would you want to give an elderly person testosterone? I am all for test, I love the stuff but in an elderly person I think it is very unwise due to the effects extra test can give a person, especially when they supplement test when they are in the normal range to begin with. He could have a heart attack at that age. The negatives outweigh the positives, especially for someone in their 80’s. If my father was alive and in his 80’s and someone wanted to give him test and his levels were within the normal range I would totally not let it happen. I know that normal prolactin levels can burden someone if other things are out of wack, so to speak. But again, the doctor knows best so keep us updated.

Originally Posted by mgus
From what I’ve understood about that, TSH and T4 only tell half the story, T3 being where it’s at - and the brain can’t convert (or only at low rate) T4 into T3 anyway, so if you’re low on T3 (or high on reverse T3) you are likely to have a problem with depression AND with low energy in general.

By the way, make sure all shampoo, cream and stuff like that containing anything that ends with -paraben goes out in the trash - apparently parabens, pcb, mercury are big on messing with thyroid receptors.

Lack of iodine and selenium are clearly linked to malfunctioning receptors too - make sure the table salt is iodine enriched and buy brazil nuts for your parents. Brazil nuts seem to be one of few good ways of getting enough selenium.

Good info, Mgus. I’ll look more closely at the T3 business to see if there are any opportunities for improvement there.


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Originally Posted by kimish
Well his test levels are within normal range so why would you want to give an elderly person testosterone? I am all for test, I love the stuff but in an elderly person I think it is very unwise due to the effects extra test can give a person, especially when they supplement test when they are in the normal range to begin with. He could have a heart attack at that age. The negatives outweigh the positives, especially for someone in their 80’s. If my father was alive and in his 80’s and someone wanted to give him test and his levels were within the normal range I would totally not let it happen. I know that normal prolactin levels can burden someone if other things are out of wack, so to speak. But again, the doctor knows best so keep us updated.

The question is, what does it mean to be in the “normal range” for an 80 year old man? His free T is 40, and I read that erections are impossible with free T under 50. If you or I walked into the doctor’s office with T numbers that low, I would imagine they would consider that to be a medical emergency. Why react differently to an older man just on account of his age?

“Normal range” means that the middle 95% of people tested by that lab fall within it. I don’t think it has any connection to what is healthy. Considering that most young people aren’t ever tested for hormones and that only people with medical symptoms usually are, I’d imagine that “normal range” is probably skewed toward people with problems.

I’ve read some more since responding to your post above, and I’ve seen that prolactin levels over 15 ng/ml are considered a problem: http://www.sharedjourney.com/maledi…/prolactin.html.

Despite this, the “normal range” according to the lab doing the tests extended up to 18. So maybe I made the same error above for prolactin (in suggesting 12.3 was good, since it was within “normal range”) that I’m suggesting you may be making here for testosterone.


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Originally Posted by petitfaun
I think he should go for a complete medical check-up. His symptoms seem to show there is something wrong . Possibly something not working properly, and allowing toxins to build up in his body.

Apart from that, like it or not; exercise is the only way to keep the body working, rather than just turning over.

Thanks, Petit. He’s gotten a pretty good work-up from his primary care physician, and now the endo is putting him through the paces. He may order an MRI to check for pituitary problems. He might monitor his sleep to check for sleep apnea (which can lower T). He’s doing other tests I don’t know about yet.


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Endocrinologist

I think he should consult an endocrinologist, I have been on TRT for more then 10 years, the treatment totally changed my life, today I use Androgel and 5 mg DHEA every day, The DHEA must be taken together with some fat, like olive oil, cheese, butter. In some countries DHEA is not legal.

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
That’s why I’m trying to get Dad in the pool. Want to work those legs and get his heart rate up without the pounding of the treadmill.

Clubber, calcium sups help at all or is this just something we have to accept with age?


Osteopenia has a widespread effect on aging skeletal tissue. The bones of the skeleton become thinner and weaker as a normal part of the aging process. Inadequate ossification is called osteopenia, and all of us become slightly osteopenic as we age. This reduction in bone mass begins between ages 30 and 40. During this period of time, osteoblast activity begins to decline, while osteoclast activity continues at previous levels.

Think of osteoclasts as recyclers and osteoblasts as builders. Once the reduction begins, women for example, will lose about 8% of their skeletal mass every decade, whereas the skeletons of men deteriorate at about 3% per decade. When the reduction in bone mass is sufficient to compromise normal function, the condition is known as osteoporosis. Sex hormones are important in maintaining normal rates of bone deposition.

The only reason why men get osteoporosis so much later in life than women do is because we produce androgens until relatively late in life, severe osteoporosis is more common in men in their 80’s and just gets worst as you age. So hormones are key to reversing and/or maintaining bone I would think based on this information. I would ask an MD myself, just to make sure it can be reversed though. It definitely should be able to slow down and control though with hormone replacement therapy.


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