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Collagen Considered

I also find those studies to be interesting.

Shiver - Why gains slow!
Putting A Finger On The Science Of PE
Shiver - Please help on supplements.
Shiver - Dedicated PE gel
Benefits of Heat in PE

The above links are all related to collagen. There are many different types of collagen and I am wondering of what type of collagen the tunica albuginea is primarily composed and of what type(s) regulate penile girth. I found them as I was trying to answer these questions. Some of what is linked above is contradictory.

The tunica is a type of fascia. Does anyone know of what collagen type fascia and more specifically the tunica albuginea is composed and the roles played by the various tunica types?

Originally Posted by shiver
I think vit-E may be useful but not groundbreaking. I went into the collagen idea a couple of years back thinking that the idea would be to increase collagen production (more tissue generation=bigger tool?). Once I started reading though I completely turned about face on this. The best information I’ve ever found was in reading about pregnancy and cervical ripening. There is a complex sequence of events approaching full term which involves a combination of some prostaglandins (PGE-1, PGE-2, PGF-2a etc), hyaluronic acid, collagenase, and a whole host of other components that allow primarily Type I and III collagens (CC is mainly Type I & IV), and some smooth muscle to relax, where the collagen thins out and the bundles can unlink and slip allowing dilation.

Shiver - Dedicated PE gel

Thanks Penismith, and thank you Shiver - wherever you are.

This is where I was about two weeks ago. Now I am interested in making a “PE gel” of my own.
I will try to post more on what I am thinking tomorrow.

Been working a lot this week and haven’t been around. I’m still thinking hard about collagen. Thanks for the PM Teaser…I read it.

A few months ago, I discovered an Emu Oil product (readily available at Wallgreen’s or CVS) that contains Vit-E, Vit-A, MSM, and other ingredients intended to support connective tissue. I have no idea what that means. ;) But, I am looking into it just the same.
Blabbity, blabbity, blah… I could be chasing the wind with this one.

I was afraid to use it because it may do nothing or it may screw up hormone levels…some body building sites have discussed this. EMu Oil is readily absorbed into the body. It is absorbed so well, in fact, that some folks were considering it as a base for topically administering steroids. I can’t find the link now…so forget I even said that.

Time. I need more.

"Debate the idea..."

Ive been wondering about the collagen debate for a while also, although in far more simplistic terms then Shiver, Penismith, et al :D

Now, I haven’t been around much lately, but is the conclusion that was drawn earlier with regards the cross-linking of collagen possibly being a reason for the cessation of gains still being touted as valid?

If so,wouldn’t it be possible, that along with a decon break, that we may actually want to encourage the (re)formation of collagen so as to eliminate the cross links?

Many of you guys know that I was a ridiculously easy gainer early on, but that has since ground to a halt, and although I have only dabbled with various techniques since, it almost seems as if I have reached my “genetic potential” and that further PE is futile without somehow “resetting” the structure of my penis back to where it was prior to PE.

Has anyone tried Relaxin?

Let me tell you the secret that has led me to my goal: my strength lies solely in my tenacity.

Louis Pasteur

I have a request for information.

Goon, I hope you don’t mind my placing the following request here in your thread. It seems to me like the best place for my question.

What really is the tunica. We know that it is composed of a double layer of collagen bundles. The inner layer circles the penis and the outer layer runs along it’s length. We also know that it contains a protein called elastin that functions as an elastic crosslinker. We know that a cell type called fibroblasts secrete collagen, that collagen is extracellular and is structurally referred to as a matrix, or an extra cellular matrix. We have read that there is a class of protein enzymes named matrix metaloproteinases (MMPs) that function as molecular scissors in the arrangement of this matrix.

We have seen pictures of the tunica in surgical publications.

Questions, many of which have been asked here previously:
What really is the tunica? It is more than just fibroblasts, collagen, MMPs and elastin.
How well aligned are these bundles?
How long are these bundles? In other words, how far around or along the penis are they likely to extend?
How are the bundles attached to each other? How are they crosslinked? How are they chemically modified?
What are the rates of collagen and bundle turnover? Is all of the tunica collagen replaced in a year? 10 years?
What is the rate of fibroblast collagen secretion? How is this secretion regulated?
What is the process of tunica maturation? This must be a multi stage process from the secretion of collagen to its final state in a bundle.
How does the tunica differ before, after and during puberty?
Why does the tunica grow during puberty. Why does it stop growing when puberty ends?
How is the smooth muscle attached to the tunica or can they slide independent of each other?
Is penile skeletal muscle attached to the tunica? What is attached to the tunica.
Does the tunica regulate the growth of other penile tissues? Do other penile tissues regulate the growth of the tunica?
How are the fibroblasts positioned in the tunica? Are they layered on the inside or are they diffuse throughout? What other cell types are contained within the tunica? What other cell types support the tunica?
Why is the tunica water tight? Is it because the bundles are so closely aligned?

I think that we need to learn a lot more about this structure as well as the other penile structures.

Hey, I just remembered what I told myself not to forget as I fell asleep last night.

The tunica is a fascia which is the collagen containing structure that surrounds muscles to regulate their geometry.

If we read about the fascia in general, we might learn something useful about the penile fascia, or tunica.

Or tunicas in general. Many organs of the body are surrounded by tunicae albunea. I remember seeing a bunch or articles addressing some of these questions. I’ll try to find them.

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Last edited by ModestoMan : 11-19-2006 at .…5&dopt=Abstract


Three dimensional architecture of collagen fibrils in the corpus cavernosum of the crab-eating monkey.

Nakano T.

Department of Anatomy, Aichi Medical University, Japan.

The three-dimensional architecture of the collagen fibrils in the corpus cavernosum of the crab-eating monkey was studied by scanning electron microscope, after digestion of cellular and some extracellular elements by NaOH. The tunica was made up of undulating bundles of collagen fibrils which were arranged in inner circular, middle intermingled and outer longitudinal layers. The trabecula appeared as numerous cylindrical tubes which had once accommodated individual smooth muscle fibers. The outer surface of the trabecula was covered with a sheath woven from twisting bundles of collagen fibrils. These architectural features of the collagen fibrils seem to be related to fluctuations in the diameter and shape of the corpus during erection and detumescence.

PMID: 8942195 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I paid the $25 for this article, and will try to pull out an valuable nuggets later.

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Last edited by ModestoMan : 11-19-2006 at .

:) Unfortunately, I can only remember stuff that I posted about before. I think there’s more out there.

Oh. I do remember Hobby’s connective tissue thread.

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PS. I don’t know if this helps, but for a visual on the tunica look at a raw steak. Our muscles are surrounded by tunica. Looking at a New York strip the tunica is the thin fibrous layer in between the meat and the fat. Probably a better visual is from an inside skirt steak. It’s the whitish layer on the outside of the steak that is usually placed face down in the package. Butchers call it the silver skin. That’s what I use to visualize the tunica

Ill never look at my steak the same way again figaro :D


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