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carbs, fats, and proteins

That’s actually genius Thunder! LOL.

We definitely need a non oil energy source so we can then stop messing around where we have no business. It would be exellent for the economy and maybe the environment as well. Then maybe this country could have a personality instead of being the energy whore it is (lol).

I don’t know about the parks.

Well you had better be willing to let go of the parks or your beef then. It takes a lot of grassland to feed cattle when you take away their grain. Plus the cost of the beef grown that way would skyrocket because of the labor involved.

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Well then it will just have too as the alternative is a hellish slide into degeneration with a grain based diet. But I remember reading an article stating that grain is far more land and resource consuming than raising cattle. Most modern ways of growing grain destroy the land make it less fertile in time. I think the opposite idea was prominently disussed in the Diet for America book but this has since been shown to be false. The way you raise animals is on a biodynamic farm - a self sufficient system. One that replenishes itself.

Grain just destroys health.

The modern meat machine is a terrible animal torture apparatus - but there are right ways to do things and wrong ways.

Its just a matter of doing things the right way Thunder.

I don’t know anything about it newbie, just seems like you can cram more corn on an acre than you can cattle. And do we really know that it is the grain in our modern diet causing the problems, or is it the chemicals/antibiotics/hormones used to grow the grain and the livestock??

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The cultivation and consumption of grains is thought to have begun because of a running out of animal foods through hunting. One theory about why we consume these products even though they ill us is because they are very addictive - literally containing opiod substances that are addictive. This is relatively new research and thought. But I think it makes the most semse because if you give up grains (especially gluten ones), you will go through withdrawal even if you maintain starch intake. Like quitting smoking or coffee - for a few days to a week. It is also thought that these drug like effects basically created organized civilization, in that people collected around the grain cultivation process. This probably exploded the population as well.

I’m not sure if its possible for the world to eat free range meat (actually fish would be better - and they lots of them in the ocean)
but grains are not the way to go.

How bout we save the parks and eat free range fish? lol

We know through anthropological studies - and by looking at organic grown food. These foods still have their antinutients and dense sugars - however, the pesticides probably dont make us healthier. Part of the poor diet here is the preservatives, trans fats, pesticides, antibiotics , poor animal diets, dyes, carcinogenic when heated vegetable oils, pollution, etc. However, some feel that whole grains are even worse than processed grains because the processing removes antinutrients and changes and denatures harmful proteins which may make it less stressful.

I think it is a combination of things. But whole natural grains have the same effect on insulin - especially when eaten in quantity- which can make everything else go bad. The thing is, it is difficult to eat grains moderately, especially gluten grains because of sugar levels and because of the before mentioned opiod substances that these grains (and milk to some extent) have.

Not to mention that most people are gluten sensitive (not celiac) and it has been shown that a non celiac person can be made to have celiac disease with a diet high in gluten which our diet is.

In any case, we do need an alternative fuel source.

Agree with you Newbie.

If/When I eat bread or pasta, I GO CRAZY!!!

I eat.. and eat… and eat… until the table is empty or/and until I am so full I almost feel sick.

Well… I don´t do this all the time (did..) but sure it´s like a drug.

Natural food is NO problem, 3-4 bananas or 300grams of blue grapes is a perfect meal and I do not crave for more, but feel satisfied, can go on with what I do (work, train, fuck..) and eat again after 2-3 hours.

A raw mono diet must be the perfect solution for the grossly overweight with eating dissorders.


Sounds like you have a great diet Pan. I’m kinda jealous (lol).

I want to work to include a lot more fish in my diet. Whenever I do have fish and vegetables I feel so light and content afterward its hard to describe. But thats the diet I want for myself - fish, some eggs and other meats ocassionally, fruits (bananas crash me but pears make me buzz) lots of veggies and maybe rice and some tubers from time to time. Whole sardines are good to eat!

It is probably a good idea to cook as little as possible as the enzymes are not so degraded like this… However certain things I would cook while others I would have rarer.

Also, I pretty much just drink water. Soda has got to be one of the worst “foods” period - my withdrawal from that was way worse than my withdrawal from coffee.

I’d like to include some more fermented foods in my diet.

I guess its an evolving process.

But just quitting breads and pasta (including whole grain ones which was what I was using last) really changed my energy levels and many people noticed it because it was dramatic. I was always slumped and just exhausted. The numbers were all fine. No diabetes. Good health. But I felt very tired. But after I cut down and then quit most grains my energy levels zoomed. Its like an out of body experience where suddenly so much more potential for activity is laid before you. It was a little scary at first. People didnt notice the weight loss or redistribution of fat. They were like, are you on speed and what are you using to make your skin look so good? Now I have energy and feel relaxed at the same time. Its weird but it feels right.

I have been eating this way since I hit puberty. This is not new information. Over the last 27 years I have watched in disgust as our government, medical “experts” and Madison avenue have paraded out one lie after another. Sad to say, but it as always about the money.

Something quite a few have touched on. Most people have no idea how f*cked up their health is all the time. For them it is normal. I have had to eat that way from time to time, and damn can I feel the difference.

I just hit 40, and usually pass for 10+ years younger. I heal 2 to 3 times as fast as other athletes that I know. According to the doc’s my heart function, lung capacity & O absorption are almost off the scale… for a 20 year old guy. Other males in my family are not like this; I attribute much of this to a very healthy lifestyle and diet my entire adult life. No bald spot either, every other guy in my family had one well before 40. The Docs consider normal to be the statistical average rather than a healthy person doing all the right things. What a crok.

Everyone is different, some have a high tolerance for grains (I love pizza & pasta but they wipe me out). IMHO everyone should get a comprehensive food allergy test and combine that data with basic healthy eating as discussed.

Running a Massive Co-Front.

I agree completely. Get a standard allergy test and an IgG elisa delayed allergy test (or similar IgG test) and work with lower carbs from there.

Man is this thread interesting!


I also was “healthy” wit hall levels good in my body (the doctor said) buit I could feel that something was wrong in my body.
I had energy to do things when I set my mind to it, but at the same time felt tired and foggy mostly. I was tested for all kinds of things but I was healthy they said. When I finally learned more about health and food and fixed most of the problems myself, the doctors said it was placebo and all in my head……
Two different doctors said that…. GRRRRRRR!!!

Your experience seens similar to mine, ain´t it wonderful.
I also drink 95% water and maybe 5% raw juices.
Sometimes ( a couple in a month) I drink some red wine or beer.
I have had all my plant food raw the latest year, but with some cooked meat, fish and eggs. Now I try to have even the eggs and fish raw and eat less meat. Let´s see if that will make things even better. Otherwise (for many people) I think raw organic plant food with lightly cooked animnal food is a good compromise, of course only water to drink :-)


would you mind telling us more specifically about what you eat?



Good thread, now I don’t know what to eat! Shit today was taco bell day! There aren’t do many places around to have a healty lunch in 45 min.


Newbie, Pan, Iamaru,

Dammit… if we didn’t meet on this board we would all have met at pizza/pasta eaters anonymous! LOL This stuff leaves me dead tired if I ever eat it.

The reason that we can eat and eat ad still eat some of this junk is that it has been B vitamin depleted. The receptors in our brains never receive a satiation signal. Take potato chips as a very nasty example. You could eat pounds of this stuff endlessly. What does this tell you? Conversely, look at a pear. It is a real food item. One or two and we cannot stuff more into our mouths. The same logic applies to a lean, broiled, (preferably certified organic) steak. After a reasonable amount we stop eating it.

I too drink mostly water and some “real” freshly squeezed fruit juices. Nothing from concentrate. I spoke a little about filtration in the Calcium Coral thread as I prefer to avoid known carcinogenics, such as Chlorine and Fluoride, in my drinking/cooking water. On special occasions I indulge in a glass of wine. Sulphite free wine by the way. I can do without this carcinogenic as well.

I can attest to the fact that when I started on the road to healthier living it was tough. I too went through some pretty bad withdrawal when I stopped the soda pop. I’m sure my genetics have helped me to look a lot younger than my actual age but there is no doubt that eating right helps. Unlike me, all of my friends, relatives and acquaintances have amassed bodyfat and/or are struggling with prostate problems, high blood pressure, celiac issues, lack of energy (cannot function without coffee), poor hearing/eyesight/memory. The list goes on…

Guys, watch the fish consumption. There have been reports of late that fish all over the world are contaminated with chemicals. Particularly, mercury which will, among other things, wreak havoc on the nervous system. I understand that three times per week should be the upper limit.


Grass is hardy and takes care of itself as far as regrowth is concerned. It is a naturally occurring fauna of many geographic locations. There is nothing more natural and nutritious for cattle to graze on. Given the choice cattle would naturally select it. It is a very alkaline substance like other leafy green vegetables which means that the meat produced through consumption of it will be drastically less acidic in nature. In turn our consumption of this far healthier meat will result in a far better PH balance. (Refer to the “Calcium Coral” thread for a little more information.)

Corn for one is a grain that can be digested only by the indigenous peoples of America. Others who consume it will invariably observe that it comes out pretty much the way it went in. It doesn’t do any good. It is also highly allergenic as is wheat. Wheat has been biogenetically screwed with for so long that most people are allergic to it. If you take a close look at labels of processed foods you will find that wheat starch or corn starch/syrup are in everything. They are simply cheap to produce and are thus used in abundance at the cost of people’s health.

A healthy alternative to beef is lamb which is often grass fed. Hormones are not tolerated by this mammal so you enjoy a second benefit. Even better is venison. There is a heck of a lot of creatine in the meat of animals that are grazing naturally in the wild. People are dumping their dollars on synthesized creatine and other vitamins/substances when it is in their best interest to promote the growth of wild game in national parkland. You can’t beat nature. Look at foot and mouth disease. It is the best example of what can go wrong when you feed livestock unnaturally for the sake of the almighty dollar.

BTW, the dependance on foreign oil is supported by the government. A guy in the U.S. developed an automobile engine that runs on vegetable oil. I tucked away an article with repect to this invention a few years ago and will try to look it up. What are the chances that the automobile industry and the petroleum industry will allow this to happen? Look at battery or solar powered automobiles. They could have been the norm ages ago.


I have been noting the ages in which death occurs for many elite level athletes and have found many to die in their fifties and sixties. Do you suppose it might have something to do with what they consume. My stance on health has also to do with longevity. Ingesting food is the best and worst thing we do to our bodies on a daily basis (other than trying to rip our dicks off… but that’s another story…). Athletes often don’t tailor their diets to the requirements of their respective sports. “Carbing up” is the most abused term I hear.

I am a little disappointed that you could not see the benefit of carb reduction at least with respect to this issue. I hope you don’t wait forever for that “evidence” you so desperately want.

Obviously, I don’t need to wish health on this robust bunch but I do so just the same,



that alarming report on fish being contaminated,

do you know more specifically which species and which regions?

I eat most norwegian salmon and also wild coldwater fish from the north outside Scandinavia.

Also what do you guys think about lightly cooked or roasted beef and fish compared to raw?



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