Insomnia Relief: All Natural

Hi Buulet, With the prescription of an SSRI and your high level of Melatonin use to get some sleep, it is just about a 99.9% chance that you have a Serotonin deficiency issue. You are not unique at all, as 30% of the population, to varying degrees, also have this problem. I recently answered someone on the board who had a problem with depression, about how the body works, and why using anti depressants cannot work, although the placebo effect can indeed make a difference. In your situation, if you are not feeling any other issues besides insomnia, and you can still feel good by taking the Melatonin, great. No need to change. However, keep in mind, that if you are stressed for any length of time, that this stress will cause your Serotonin deficiency to increase. As to which particular problem your Serotonin deficiency will materialize as, I do not know, but I would guess in your case that it would be depression.

If you want to read about how the body works, here is the thread: Depression

Gabapentin does indeed slow things down a lot. But I see that you discovered that already.

Best of luck

So basically if I think I have a Serotonin deficiency, I should supplement with Tryptophan and/or 5 HTP?

S-Adenosyl methionine - Wikipedia

Melatonin is made by the Pineal Gland. It is made from the Neurotransmitter Serotonin. The processes of conversion are first, Alkylation, and second, Methylation. The Serotonin is made from Hydroxylated Tryptophan (medical abbreviation) 5 HTP. 5 HTP is made in the liver from Tryptophan, which is an amino acid. The first variable in the production of Serotonin is the ingestion of sufficient levels of Tryptophan, or more simply, did you eat enough whole proteins. Men do not usually have that issue. The “rate controlling” issue is the livers ability to convert Tryptohpan into Hydroxylated Tryptophan (5-HTP). The limits of this process are genetic. So, if you are part of the 30% of the population who are subject to deficiency conditions, you will be for the rest of your life.

Out of the 30% of the population that CAN have a problem with Serotonin deficiency, 22% (of the population) have only an intermittent problem, and as a consequence, their issues come and go from time to time. Their intermittent problem with production is almost always caused by high levels of Cortisol (the stress hormone) and its metabolites. Basically, when you get stressed for a while, and you are part of the 30% that has this issue, you feel worse, to pretty bad, depending upon the severity of your genetic abiltity to hydroxylate Tryptophan, and the amount of stress that you are under.

Since Melatonin is made from 5 HTP, and since it is by far and away the largest single consumer of 5 HTP in the body (8-10% of total 5 HTP production), when a person is deficient, it almost always shows up as a problem with insomnia.This is because there is insufficient amounts of 5 HTP to make Serotonin in the pineal gland. In some people, their levels of Melatonin are so low, that sleep cannot last more than one hour. This causes a lot of problems in and of itself, so insomnia is something to pay attention to.

So, if a person is taking a large amount of Melatonin, it is very likely that the underlying reason is a liver issue with the production of 5 HTP. The solution is simple, supplement with 5 HTP. In doing that, one wants to take a large dose (say 400mg of American type 5 HTP, which is made from tree leaves that contain 22% 5 HTP by weight, as opposed to the European 5 HTP, which is a pharmaceutical) for the first day. The reason for a larger dose on the first day is the every Serotonin neuron (receptor) is low of Serotonin, so you want to fill them all up. Then a smaller dose on the second day, say 300 mg, than from that day on, 200 mg of 5 HTP, for the rest of your life.

People who have an issue with 5 HTP frequently have the same issue of insufficient hydroxylation with DOPA, which makes Dopamine, and Epinephrine.

To make it even simpler,
if you have insomnia and you take Melatonin, is your problem with your pineal gland, or insufficient 5 HTP.
If you take 5 HTP instead of Melatonin, do you sleep well, or not. If not, your problem is in your Pineal Gland (rare).
If you do sleep well, your problem is that you make insufficient amounts of 5 HTP,
If you make insufficient amounts of 5 HTP, you are subject to a number of deficiency issues, such as depression, IBS, chronic constipation, premature ejaculation, unreasonable anger, obsessive compulsive disease, etc, etc.
So, it is better to know what is wrong, then not to so that you can be prepared.

Hope that helps

So, my suggestion was to do some investigation as to where your issue was. If you only have an issue with Melatonin, then fine, you will not have any more problems if you continue to supplement as you are doing. However, if your problem is insufficient amounts of Serotonin (much, much more likely) than you will face any number of issues when stress comes into your life, depending upon how stressed you are, and how long it continues.

Hope that h

Sweet baby Jesus. Thanks I got it now. I bought 5 HTP and seeing what happens.

buulet,

You are using way too much melatonin. After all, even though it is relatively safe in the dose you’re taking, is still a hormone.

To elevate your melatonin levels to those normally found in physiological levels, you need <1 mg. More like 300mgc according to this study
http://www.cfid s-cab.org/cfs-i … /wurtman00.html ,
which found that going over this dose is not necessarily better

If you do want a more rapid onset of effects from melatonin take 1 mg lozenge ,split it in half and let it dissolve under your tongue. When I do this myself, I get sleepy within 10-15 minutes.It gives me a refreshing sleep without waking up groggy in the next morning.

Hi Alin, I looked at the study that you mentioned and although I have no problem with their study, the underlying assumptions of the study mean that it is irrelevant to the clinical use of Melatonin. What they did not take into account was the basal levels of, Tryptophan, 5 HTP, as well as Melatonin. Basal levels of 5 HTP are almost never measured and to the best of my knowledge, there is no commercial blood test for them. Basal levels of Serotonin cannot be measured because Serotonin only exists in the neurons. It is destroyed before leaving the neuron, and all that is left are the urinary metabolites. The urinary metabolites of Serotonin can be measured, but they are so rarely measured that there is no yardstick to serve as a guide for the clinician.

Since the production of Melatonin is 100% dependent upon adequate levels of 5 HTP, any study of Melatonin (other than a general one such as the one that you found) does not have relevance unless those differences are factored in, which they were not. This is why insomnia is quite predictive to a whole host of Serotonin deficiency issues.

When you take the population as a whole that is what you get, a cross sample of everyone. Their assessment of dosages of Melatonin are quite accurate for a majority of the population. At to a percentage, I would say just about 75%. Another 15% of the population would track to their standards fairly well. The remaining 10% would not fit that pattern at all, which is why you see guys like Marinera taking so much Melatonin to get to sleep. With a few of the men that I have treated, who also have concurrent issues with their diet, it has taken 3 weeks to get Melatonin production back to normal levels, due to the Pineal Glands inability to make sufficient enzymes to convert 5 HTP into Serotonin, and then into Melatonin.

Sadly, while all of the information that I have given is in the medical text books, most of the medical field ignores the facts, and still prescribes anti depressants for Serotonin deficiency issues.

stagestop, is there a downside to taking 5HTP? Adverse side effects?

I believe a contributing factor to my sleeping disorder is the fact that I have tinnitus pretty bad. The only way I can sleep is by having a loud air purifier next to my head when I go to sleep at night. Now that I think about it I probably should have put that in my original post as part of how I get to sleep.

Hello Chuck R. Taking too much 5 HTP can give you anorgasmia, (the inability to have a sexual climax). It takes somewhere between 1500 mg to 3,000 mg to get to that point, but others have done that. If you were to do that, there are no lasting effects. Simply stop supplementing for a few days to a week, then start again.

For those with Premature Ejaculation, it is easy to see how it is caused by low levels of Serotonin in the brain. Supplementing usually fixes that in a few days to a week.

Hi Buulet, Tinnitus can certainly be disconcerting. Your use of white sound to disguise the ringing in your ears seems to be a good way to solve the problem. As far as I know, tinnitus has no connection to Serotonin deficiency. Have you started to sleep better by using the 5 HTP yet?

Not yet. Just what I was doing was helping my sleep for about 2 weeks, but the past 3 nights I haven’t been able to fall asleep. It’s irritating because for two weeks it seemed to work pretty well so I posted this thread thinking maybe I could help somebody else out, and now it ain’t doing shit for me. What the fuck? Oh well I guess I’ll just have to try something else and get this figured out. I have to have 8 hours of sleep a night, especially since I lift weights. That’s a good way to fuck up your body pretty fast is to get no sleep and lift weights all the time.

I have been taking 5 HTP for 3 days now, and I have to say, I feel ‘happier’.

Hi Buulet,

I am glad to hear that you are doing better. In looking at your postings, I am quite convinced that you are in the lowest 8% of the population that does suffer from a Serotonin shortage. You will need to keep supplementing 5 HTP for the rest of your life. When high levels of stress happen, you may need to add a bit to your supplemental amounts to keep your levels at optimal levels.

Best of luck

Couldn’t weed work as well?